Why Lead?
"Everything rises and falls on leadership," - John Maxwell
My name is Ben Owden and I have weekly conversations with leaders. I hope that these conversations will help you find the clarity and conviction to lead a more meaningful and impactful life. I’ve curated some of the best thinker practitioners from all over the world to help you get to your leadership nirvana.
Why Lead?
0061 - How to Become a More Integrated Leader and Lead with Grace ft Alexsys Thompson
You will discover the power of self-accountability, learning to greet yourself with humility and make amends when your actions misalign with your values. Alexsys guides us through a decade-by-decade relationship inventory, emphasizing the importance of compassion and forgiveness. The conversation delves into heart-centered leadership, challenging binary thinking in the corporate world, and cultivating curiosity for personal growth. Alexsys unveils practical steps to strengthen intuition and introduces the six tenets of graceful leadership, with a focus on transparency as the foundational key.
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Alexsys Book The Power of a Graceful Leader
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00:19.17
Ben Owden
Do you feel as if you sold your soul in the name of professional success? Do you have a strict divide between your personal life and your professional life? Do you have an unshakable feeling that you're not connecting as deeply as you could with your peers and subordinates? Do you feel seen or heard have you ever thought? If. They only knew me well you're not alone a guest today is someone who has personally experienced all of this and figured out a way and has made it a mission to help others find their way into a more integrated life in today's conversation we'll be exploring what it means to be a graceful leader. So you can begin to integrate who you are and how you lead and to have this conversation I am joined by the author of the Power of a Graceful Leader featured by Entrepreneur magazine as one of the 10 authors offering entrepreneurs insights and advice for successful leadership. She has authored the tribal gratitude journals curated. Ah, curated a collection of short stories called Gratitude Five Fifty and is building a sanctuary that will be a safe space for souls to show up ladies and gentlemen Alexis Thompson Alexis you're most welcome.
01:26.21
Alexsys Thompson
Oh thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
01:32.34
Ben Owden
I think as like when I came across your your work. Ah, one of the questions that popped into my mind is ah there are a lot of leadership ideas. Um that are in existence in the world right now and the world has embraced so many ideas when you think about the last 2 or three decades. Ideas like servant leadership transformational leadership, compassionate leadership, um, etc so many ideas have emerged what was missing that led you to introduce the idea of graceful leadership to the world?
02:02.40
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, thanks for the thoughtful question I have been pondering it for a little bit and so it really I'm gonna flip it a little bit because it isn't necessarily what was missing. But it's it's a thread that didn't pull them all nicely together right? so.
02:12.69
Ben Owden
Are.
02:19.44
Alexsys Thompson
All of those ways of leadership situational conscious compassion meant and serve it all parts of how we move in the world through Grace so Grace is kind of this. Um, if you want to think about it umbrella all of those what looks like individual competencies or strategies or capabilities.
02:28.30
Ben Owden
Um, and.
02:38.62
Alexsys Thompson
Inside of and Grace is the way that they all move in unison um together inside and through a particular leader and we're going to have strengths in 1 areas and weaknesses and others. Um through that just like any other capacity leadership is one of those things and muscles you build.
02:41.37
Ben Owden
Are.
02:57.70
Alexsys Thompson
But I would say Grace is the thing that pulls it all together. Not so much that something was missing.
03:00.14
Ben Owden
And you've mentioned conscious leadership which again one of the most popular concepts out there right now and when you think about things like die right diversity inclusion and equity which is a relevant conversation in most circles.
03:09.60
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, yeah.
03:14.76
Alexsys Thompson
Handsome.
03:19.66
Ben Owden
Globally right now there's something that you say in your book you say moving from consciousness to Grace is about transitioning from self-awareness to an even more holistic we contract and I think I saw somewhere ah where you talk about. you know this concept of Ubuntu which is ah. I love ubutu it's it's it's one of our core values at y lead and so the question is is a graceful leader one that thrives in this world that's trying to strive for more diversity more inclusion and equity in the in the workplace?
03:55.62
Alexsys Thompson
I think that's a byproduct of working within the grace construct. So it's not that there shouldn't or can't be focused on that at times in 1 leadership's journey because I think we're all evolving about what is this die or inclusion.
04:01.72
Ben Owden
Um.
04:11.74
Alexsys Thompson
Concept for everybody and I think it started out as a visible thing you know which we would all say is a little easier to get your arms around but it's so much more than that and we're learning that as ways of thinking ways of being different value sets um, different cultures and it isn't necessarily all spotted by the eye.
04:15.73
Ben Owden
Ah.
04:30.35
Alexsys Thompson
Um, the ear can pick up some of it. Yeah, which is nice to have happen but actually I think it's It's a heart centered experience where we're willing to leave our heart and our consciousness open enough to receive something that's different and sometimes at times challenging to our own set of values or our own way of being in the world.
04:30.52
Ben Owden
Um, and.
04:49.40
Alexsys Thompson
And allowing those things to come together and not making one better or worse than the other so Grace is like on the front of the book. The infinity symbol was not an accident and so that whole idea is that the tenants of a graceful leader are moving along the continuum of the infinity symbol with grace.
04:58.26
Ben Owden
Are.
05:08.81
Alexsys Thompson
With ease with a knowing with an appropriateness and this concept of diversity inclusion would be no different than compassion or inclusiveness or connectedness. Um I I get that there's the focus on it I think it's relevant and appropriate that there's a focus on it.
05:21.77
Ben Owden
Um.
05:28.34
Alexsys Thompson
I Just encourage us all to look at it from even step back even further and look at different ways that we're we're sorting each other in and out all the time in the world because that's how we move through where do we spend our time who's relevant in our space who do we bring into our company. So it's not that that those filters are good or bad.
05:39.22
Ben Owden
Are.
05:48.19
Alexsys Thompson
And sometimes I think they need a little upgrading and so I think that the diversity inclusion conversation allows us the opportunity to do that homework internally and then be able to express it and show up more holistically or in a we or and a bunch to ah format with other people.
05:49.80
Ben Owden
Are.
06:00.59
Ben Owden
So graceful. Leadership is basically more of an inside out approach so that you know you you work into and then it shows up because I think yeah, you're right? Sometimes we tend to settle for.
06:10.38
Alexsys Thompson
Yes.
06:19.61
Ben Owden
The easier change which is now if you look at our leadership ah structure you see more gender diversity or racial diversity. You know, depending on where you are in the world. Ah, but actually when you speak to the people who are in those positions and sometimes people have a so feeling that I'm just a. Ah, token diversity person here but actually I don't really have any say or the overall experience being a minority in this particular situation hasn't really changed and so the change has happened and the optics look good but actually the day-to-day experience of the individuals who are part of the. You know so-called different hasn't Changed. So if I pur you correctly, graceful leadership is more of that insideout approach where the day-to-day experience of everyone within a particular you know organization actually has transformed because the changes are not just these.
06:58.69
Alexsys Thompson
Here.
07:18.23
Ben Owden
Outer things that are visible but even internal things small things how we communicate how we react to situations. Um, how we address things how we solve problems how we collaborate with each other. All of that changes under there. We construct.
07:22.90
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, so.
07:32.45
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, yeah, and it's a beautiful thing when we've I think most of us have felt it in an organization or in a relationship we may have had and we understand the um feeling it brings of safety and the ability to be vulnerable and authentic.
07:47.44
Ben Owden
Are.
07:49.64
Alexsys Thompson
Um, so it's a fusly. It's a feeling before it's anything else. But I also would challenge leaders today that there are certain behaviors that they should look at within themselves that would demonstrate this inclusive nature and the ability to move their own filters or biases.
08:01.67
Ben Owden
Are.
08:09.70
Alexsys Thompson
Along the continuum to make space for that inclusion. Yeah.
08:13.66
Ben Owden
Um, something else that you mentioned which is something that my team and I are striving to embody so to speak this idea of having structure and flow because I think when you talk about grace.
08:25.78
Alexsys Thompson
Um.
08:28.85
Ben Owden
1 of the core functions of Grace is to be accommodating of things that maybe you think violate your standards so grace has that sense of accommodating those who are different accommodating those who don't live up to XYAndZ and
08:31.15
Alexsys Thompson
See.
08:48.54
Ben Owden
So part of the threat that sometimes comes with the idea of Grace is that I will not have a firm position if I'm always accommodating of the so-called different and then you talk about this idea of structure and flow meaning.
09:00.70
Alexsys Thompson
Um.
09:04.73
Alexsys Thompson
Awesome.
09:06.77
Ben Owden
There's a sense of a foundation of some sort because there's structure. So it's not just going by the wind. But there's a structure but there's also a sense of flow and you use this metaphor of a river how a river is water flows and it takes different forms at times. But there's. Clear structure within the flow and you say the compassionately powerful leader is like a river with both structure and flow and so how do we begin to embody this ah concept of structure and flow is not not as 2 separate things. But as 1 distinct.
09:27.00
Alexsys Thompson
So.
09:36.23
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah.
09:44.43
Ben Owden
Thing where you don't feel like if I am accommodating it means I am changing or that I don't have standards or that I but actually for it all to feel congruent for it all to feel like 1 thing. How do we get to that point.
09:49.72
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah.
09:55.19
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, it's a really deep question right? because it's so layered I mean you just layered a bunch of inquiry in there. So I'll go back to the observation that you made that it's an inside job. So there's where it happens first and when we look at Grace as doormat material or. An ambivalence or a lack of commitment or a lack of position in the world that that isn't the grace that I would be speaking about in this book and this is why um I I point out early on that you need to understand why What's your why? What are your value sets and do that deep internal work to. Either reaffirm the ones that were given to you because we all get handed them early on in life and accept those and affirm them for yourself or throw them out replace with new ones upgrade the ones you have whatever that process is for you but that's foundational to this this whole inquiry that you're having here about structure and flow.
10:35.78
Ben Owden
Are.
10:51.94
Alexsys Thompson
Because those values and the boundaries and the things that you stand for in the world become the structure if you know your why like. For example, mine is create safe places for souls to show up. That's the first filter everything comes in from if the inquiry to do something.
10:59.35
Ben Owden
Um.
11:10.66
Alexsys Thompson
Doesn't somehow meet that filter I sorted out as a no thank you, you know? and so that's a structure for me to move through the day prioritize and set things up that are in alignment with myself I Also inside of there. Um.
11:16.63
Ben Owden
Um.
11:28.79
Alexsys Thompson
Have a lot of flow by nature that seems to be how I prefer to work structures been my challenge There's plenty of times if you're working in corporate America I was teaching a class this last week and we were talking about this because if you walk into a corporate environment. There is a structure. Right? It's in It's sometimes a very inflexible structure and so they're like well how do I be all flow inside this very rigid structure and so this is where the challenge comes. But if you know who you are as you enter the structure one. Hopefully you're entering one that doesn't violate you and.
11:47.46
Ben Owden
Are.
12:04.22
Alexsys Thompson
Core beliefs that you have your non-negotiables. So let's say that's true and now you're in the structure and you're trying to figure out how do I create flow and this usually happens through relationship and through people right? It can happen through systems and innovation for sure. Um, but typically I find that leaders are doing.
12:04.28
Ben Owden
Ah.
12:23.53
Alexsys Thompson
They're learning to flow with different types of people. So let's say that you and I start having a values conversation and you have a value that feels alarming to me like how could he hold that value. What the internal work for me is to just be still create a pause and some curiosity around.
12:33.13
Ben Owden
Are.
12:41.68
Alexsys Thompson
The lack put down the judgment of how could he that makes no sense to my world and start getting gently curious with you about how did you get there? Um, why is that one of the values that you hold and not feel threatened that it might adjust my value set learning your value set.
12:43.14
Ben Owden
And.
13:00.46
Alexsys Thompson
And this is huge. A lot of us as we're maturing we become So I know these things these things are who I am and anything that looks like it might threaten it or challenge it. We might just push away make wrong or definitely not get an inquiry about what that is and.
13:12.82
Ben Owden
Ah.
13:16.50
Ben Owden
Are.
13:19.78
Alexsys Thompson
When we allow ourselves to be uncomfortable in the oh my gosh Ben just brought something that's alarming to me or very different than I'd ever would have considered prior to him sharing that with me and I get curious about it I do a few things I affirm my own and I get more comfortable that where I am is where I really am want to be. Or maybe I adjust it maybe I upgrade my value system belief or non-negotional based on new data and all of those things are flow inside the structure that I set up for myself around my values and my why and it's the same thing inside corporate America um, it's the same.
13:40.64
Ben Owden
Um.
13:53.59
Ben Owden
A.
13:56.98
Alexsys Thompson
Feeling and of things if you personally are aligned with your company that becomes the first barrier or the first deep inquiry people have and if you're coaching you know this they may at times step back and look at the organization and go oh my God How is it I'm here right? This one doesn't align with me.
14:14.00
Ben Owden
And.
14:15.78
Alexsys Thompson
Be at the work be at the structure. Be it. The people and they have to make big choices about how they want to remain there and be authentic and aligned or how they may choose to do something else. So it's got lots of layers to I'm not sure if I address the question as we hoped.
14:28.37
Ben Owden
Um, yes I think you did um and and you know all of this is not easy work like you said it's an inside job and an inside job is you know it's It's a lot of work.
14:33.41
Alexsys Thompson
Okay.
14:38.62
Alexsys Thompson
No.
14:44.78
Ben Owden
Ah, but what sort of questions Do we need to ask ourselves so that we get to that point of I guess less fear because structure is what provides.
14:47.89
Alexsys Thompson
M.
14:58.49
Alexsys Thompson
Yes.
15:02.84
Ben Owden
Safety for us. It's you are raised. You know these are the set of values that I have and and they keep me safe. These are the sort of things that I have and they keep me safe and when you're engaging and interacting with people who fundamentally believe something different than you.
15:03.16
Alexsys Thompson
So well.
15:08.42
Alexsys Thompson
Um, yeah.
15:18.94
Alexsys Thompson
Who.
15:21.82
Ben Owden
The reaction and that dissonance right? where you want to take a step back and say no no because now this is feels like dangerous territory. So how do we get to a point where we can allow the fear to happen the anxiety all of that.
15:28.81
Alexsys Thompson
So.
15:40.79
Ben Owden
Discomfort um, and live through it long enough to actually get to the other side. Be it. The affirmation that this is well okay I guess where I stand is probably right? or maybe it's time to readjust because I think this idea of unlearning is not so easy and I think organizations and individuals. Eventually become irrelevant because of that refusal to unlearn So How how do we? What sort of questions we need to ask ourselves to unlearn and how can we take that position where fear of new information of possibly taking a different position.
16:03.16
Alexsys Thompson
Okay.
16:16.11
Ben Owden
Doesn't become so crippling that we refuse to change altogether.
16:22.47
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, so this is this has got lots of layers in this world because I think if we're just talking about our J O B's um it's hard, but it's it's not life threatening for most of us it may it. It may actually come up that I i. Have this knowing now that I can't do this type of work and that may feel threatening if this is how we feed our family right? like that's real. Um, so I guess one of the tricks that I learned a long long time ago is for the most part every day. And I say most part because nothing's a hundred percent for anybody and certainly not me I I ask myself when I'm looking at the to do this like Sunday I get ready for Monday and I ask myself? What's the thing I don't want to do the most right? And what's the thing that scares me the most and by addressing both of those things.
17:04.17
Ben Owden
Are.
17:11.76
Alexsys Thompson
I've already centered my nervous system in we're gonna go get the hard stuff done first and we're gonna see where that takes us and that just that simple practice for me has been life changing because for the most part. Um I'll step into any fear from.
17:15.58
Ben Owden
A.
17:28.49
Ben Owden
A.
17:31.50
Alexsys Thompson
Life threatening ones which isn't necessarily always the smartest thing but I don't my I have such a knowing about my own constitution about who I am in the world that I I embrace the fear because I know it's either gonna affirm. Yes I This is not correct me.
17:44.79
Ben Owden
Are.
17:48.64
Alexsys Thompson
Or holy moly look at this whole new world that exists on the other side of fear which is honestly most often what it happens because I have whole new experience and I'm like oh my god I you know I wish I'd done that five years ago two years ago 10 minutes ago because I missed whole experience of my life.
17:50.19
Ben Owden
Are. A.
18:03.80
Ben Owden
Are.
18:08.30
Alexsys Thompson
You know I'm on the midrange of my life is I don't want to miss any more of those things So that's another thing is life cycles and lifestyle circumstances will also be a part of how you filter in your risk tolerance or your willingness fear straight on I will also share that for me.
18:19.97
Ben Owden
Are.
18:28.27
Alexsys Thompson
As I've done this work and I become I allow I do allow the inquiry to come in and challenge my values and belief systems on the regular and what I've learned is I've affirmed them so much that it would be alarming although Welcome. For something to come in and totally shift me because I've done so much of the inner Work. So I Also know there's going to be times because of where I position myself in the world that I'm going to have to stand really firm and really rigid like these are my non-negotiables.
18:51.96
Ben Owden
Um.
19:03.29
Alexsys Thompson
And take the consequences as they may happen and sometimes those consequences I might deem as undesirable but it would be more undesirable for me to abdicate my position or my belief or my value than to take the potential unpleasant consequence.
19:12.70
Ben Owden
Ah.
19:22.68
Alexsys Thompson
And I think we all get there the more inner work that you do and I'll also say that I used to have maybe a dozen really important things and now there's like 3 like if you come up on one of those 3 things we're probably gonna tango or I might just say hey I might just say hey you know what this you aren't for me and I'm not for you.
19:27.40
Ben Owden
Ah.
19:34.92
Ben Owden
Ah.
19:41.31
Ben Owden
Are.
19:42.44
Alexsys Thompson
That's okay, um, but I don't I don't walk away from those conversations either and I'm willing to be uncomfortable being with you being uncomfortable. Yeah.
19:54.17
Ben Owden
Um, yeah I think you you've mentioned inner work several times up until this point of our conversation and.
20:04.40
Alexsys Thompson
Um, yes.
20:04.49
Ben Owden
Purpose is a big part of being a graceful leader. Um, and I think ah we live in a world where I believe a large majority of people have an existential crisis people are asking the question. What is my purpose. How do I find my purpose. Um you write.
20:14.55
Alexsys Thompson
Yes.
20:22.26
Ben Owden
Making the act of unlocking your why habitual practice and as you you know, just rightly said right? now you, you are you make a habit to make sure that you're always aware of where you are and doing that inner work such that you don't really have a lot of those shocking moments. Um. So What sort of questions again. Do people need to ask themselves to unlock their why because most people don't even know what their why is? Um, and so that inner work is very hard because the fundamental question of why do you exist.
20:51.40
Alexsys Thompson
Um, yeah.
20:58.55
Ben Owden
Ah, is still an answer for most people.
21:01.88
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah I would agree. So I think that um, there's probably you know there's a lot of books science and cynics the power power of your why know your why there's a lot of books about how to way back in the day I did what color is your parachute like decades ago.
21:16.93
Ben Owden
Um.
21:17.27
Alexsys Thompson
So there's a lot of really good books for Frameworks If that's what you're looking for to really dig into what is my why what? I will share with you is that mine. My I love those processes and they definitely opened up new ways of thinking and different perspectives about how to get to it and.
21:22.72
Ben Owden
Are.
21:36.69
Alexsys Thompson
What really ended up unlocking it and anchoring it for me was um, a meditation practice. However, that looks for you and my gratitude practice. So when I got really refined in my gratitude practice My why just presented itself as this beautiful gift to me.
21:40.94
Ben Owden
Are.
21:55.50
Alexsys Thompson
Almost one day I mean it was there all the time but the clarity that it came through of creating safe voices for souls to show up that came to me as a gift through. Let's see is was it a decade is about 8 years of a deep refining of my gratitude practice and as I started to see the patterns. Things that were consistently included things that were consistently not included that I thought should be included in my gratitude practice. All of that shoulds and woodves all those things that we do to shame ourselves along the way when I got really honest and really to the bottom of the barrel. That's when it all came in for me. But it was a it was a consistency and a practice and I don't think I don't think the practice really matters I think that consistency and then what what I find happens for myself and hundreds of leaders I have the opportunity to work with is that consistency brings the honest conversation between your soul right.
22:51.46
Ben Owden
Are.
22:53.48
Alexsys Thompson
And your egoic nature your character your personhood and not that those are 2 different things but we often experience them as 2 different things oftentimes when you come into learning more about yourself. You learn very quickly. How how can I be the observer of myself. You know that's a fundamental way of being able to discern.
23:07.83
Ben Owden
And.
23:13.34
Alexsys Thompson
Um, the distinctions between those things and that's where alignment happens where alignment happens purpose shows up.
23:22.85
Ben Owden
Ah, do you mind sharing with us this gratitude practice because now I'm curious. Ah yeah.
23:28.34
Alexsys Thompson
No I Love to? yeah so um, it started a long time ago I was just in the kind of a dark night of the souls point in my life honestly and I just started doing I think I heard it on a podcast or read it in a book somewhere.
23:38.41
Ben Owden
Are.
23:45.19
Alexsys Thompson
Just write down 3 to 10 things you're grateful for every day and so I was like okay well I'll try that you know and I just I just kept doing it and sometimes it was literally the same list for like a month or 2 so it wasn't like I spent a lot of you know, gregarious amounts of time I just literally started listing things out.
23:54.97
Ben Owden
Are.
24:03.35
Alexsys Thompson
And by the time I'd done that for about four months some stuff started to bubble up like I started to see the possibility rather than the problem I started to see people that I really would have said to you I didn't want to spend time with her care for I started to get curious about why? Why was that my experience of the person clearly all these other people had time and.
24:09.54
Ben Owden
Are.
24:22.78
Alexsys Thompson
Energy for this person. What was my dilemma in there and that's where I started to learn the the inner work of you know, sometimes what you see in someone else is the thing you're resisting within yourself. You know oh gosh I better look at that. So was this the gratitude practice was kind of the crack in my outer shell that allowed me to get new perspectives on me.
24:24.33
Ben Owden
A.
24:31.66
Ben Owden
Are.
24:37.90
Ben Owden
Are and.
24:41.49
Alexsys Thompson
And relationship to others so that was just the list making but then I started to understand the power of manifesting or intention in the world I did a lot of work around linn mctagger's the power of 8 and I started to understand that if I put some intention around this gratitude practice. And I can future cast it rather than just do it from a from a context or a history perspective. What happened in the day. But what if I start my day and I say I'm thankful for this really amazing conversation with Ben right? I'm really thankful for that. How does that change the conversation with Ben if that if I didn't do that. Um.
25:09.46
Ben Owden
Are.
25:16.44
Ben Owden
And.
25:18.81
Alexsys Thompson
And every time in every way in my life life is just better. It's it's richer. The colors are brighter. It's more dynamic. The relationships are deeper. They add value all the way around to all stakeholders. So my graduate practice has gotten very very deep and I spend a lot of time with leaders.
25:30.71
Ben Owden
Are.
25:37.93
Alexsys Thompson
On this particular thing. Another thing that really cool that happens from this is we all at least in my generation I think it's getting better with the younger generations. We have the who I am at work and the who I am at home thing going on when you start doing a gratitude practice and you start to weave in home and work.
25:52.62
Ben Owden
Um.
25:57.20
Alexsys Thompson
You start to see like oh my I'm giving the best part of who I am to my work and my family's getting the second fiddle on all that how can I create those usually really fine shifts in my perspective or my behavior or my routine so I can bring some of the awesomeness of who I am at work. My family and vice versa and so we come right? This brings us right back then to alignment it's this congruency between who I am by day and who I am by night that brings the possibility for your purpose your values the way you move in the world. The love for self the love for others.
26:19.44
Ben Owden
And. Are.
26:33.56
Alexsys Thompson
All into 1 beautiful place.
26:34.72
Ben Owden
Wow I like that because I think I recently read somewhere where was a scientist talking about innovation and true innovation and they were saying that true innovation is you can't build a formula around it. It's.. It's like catching glimpses. It's like ideas are floating and when you don't pay attention to them is when they become clear so you just have to create a system of just observation and eventually you're going to catch a glimpse and so I like what you just shared because it's a system.
26:55.61
Alexsys Thompson
For who.
27:02.78
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah. Um, yeah.
27:09.83
Ben Owden
Where you're sharing. You know you're writing things down and you're taking note all the things that you're grateful for and the things you would like to experience and eventually you catch a glimpse of what is what your purpose is so so so I like that ah practice I'll ah I'll probably try to implement an experiment with that and see what happens see what.
27:14.90
Alexsys Thompson
Um, yeah, yeah, that.
27:29.70
Alexsys Thompson
Um I would love to hear back? Yeah yeah.
27:29.70
Ben Owden
Yeah, what I catch. Yeah um, an example that you talk about in the book is you know Martin Luther King Jr and especially because.
27:34.62
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah.
27:40.11
Ben Owden
And I've observed his approach and at times I because you know we share the same faith he he was a christian Christian I'm a Christian and I always asked. How did he do it. Because on one end he's he's a preacher and he's preaching about love and all of those things and and god and then on the other hand he's an activist and going up against his establishment and speaking for things and then you have you know the juxtaposition of him and someone like the Martin Luther I mean Malcolm X who had a very different approach to how to do things and I never looked at it from the point of view that you looked at it that he was the more integrated because the way his approach was an integration of 2 sort of. Aspects of who he is as a person on 1 end, he's this preacher who talks about you know loving god loving people on the other side. He's an activist who's you know trying to champion a world that is more just and equal for people of different races and.
28:31.81
Alexsys Thompson
Yes.
28:46.29
Alexsys Thompson
Okay.
28:48.81
Ben Owden
His approach of activism was more integrated because you know it was peaceful protesting. He didn't take any aggressive means towards achieving that cause and people on the other side saw that as you know you're being passive. You're being soft. You're not going to get your rights this way. But actually he was just integrated. He didn't do one at the expense of the other and sometimes it feels like when we show up into work. We're living a part of who we are outside because you know I am say the director of sales and I have to hit this target. At all cost. Ah, but then outside of work. Maybe I am part of this volunteering group that has a very naturing approach to what we do. But then here I am like this very aggressive heads-on tyrant type where we have to hit this goal. And and sometimes you see that people that incongruency eventually you know leads to sometimes depression sometimes just burnout because you feel like you're not being your true self at all. So how do we get to a point where more of us become like Martin Luther King sometimes you might have two sides that feel like they were posing each other but actually it's just because we haven't figured out a way to integrate the two sides of who we are.
30:13.90
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, who this is a big one because this was pretty intimate for me in my journey because I had definitely I felt like you know the good angel and the bad angel living right here all the time and both of them luring me in opposite directions.
30:24.94
Ben Owden
Are.
30:30.26
Alexsys Thompson
Until we sat down and had a talk one day and said we're going this way and everybody needs to get on board. Um, so one of the things about this is that this takes a courage and when when you're really quiet with yourself and you're you're willing to be.
30:43.43
Ben Owden
Um.
30:49.10
Alexsys Thompson
Really courageous with yourself and look at all the places where you're mischievous with yourself, right? where you self-s saotage or you are you're arrogant or you're whatever the thing is there's a there's it almost always as least so far as I can tell. There's a thread that connects it all and that's what Martin Luther King did he just took the thread of love which is I would argue the thread for all of us I don't think we have to reinvent the thread and think we're all unique I think if we all just focused on love and start with ourselves and start loving ourselves in the areas where.
31:10.16
Ben Owden
Ah.
31:20.14
Ben Owden
And.
31:26.42
Alexsys Thompson
We judge ourselves and we aren't the stellar person that we want people to think we are much less what we want to experience ourselves as there's one saying I have dogs and I love my dogs and I constantly remind myself to be the person my dog thinks I am and I know that sounds silly. But my dog thinks I'm amazing all the time and he's never they're never tired to see me. They're always greeting me like it was the first time right? So if I can start greeting myself that way and even when I've behaved in a way that wasn't congruent with who I say I want to be and allowing myself the humility right. To accept that part of myself and then make amends or do whatever I have to do with the consequence I need to be accountable for that as well and this is where I think most people will stop in the book I share with you to do kind of a relationship inventory.
32:10.78
Ben Owden
Are and.
32:23.51
Alexsys Thompson
And it was. It's a hard thing to do. But if you take your life in 5 years or decade increments and you write down all the relationships you've had that have been awesome and all the relationships you've had that have been not so awesome and you're really honest about your role in those things as you move through.
32:26.46
Ben Owden
Um, and.
32:31.77
Ben Owden
Are.
32:42.35
Alexsys Thompson
And you loop back and you make amends where you can where people will allow you but you at least go through the act of forgiving and asking for forgiveness. This is a compassionate space of leadership. But it's compassion for me and it's compassion that I too can create change enough that who I was 5 minutes ago last year yesterday.
32:51.47
Ben Owden
Are.
33:02.22
Alexsys Thompson
Can be a different version better version of that today and that's really the only game we're in is how do I be a better version of me every day. There's no be a better version of Ben that's silly I'm just going to be a better version of Lexixi and so if you're willing to take that on that's where the secret sauce is but it's not.
33:04.96
Ben Owden
Are. Are.
33:22.00
Alexsys Thompson
It's not without some reckoning and some ah the alignment work. A fair amount of radical honesty with yourself a willingness to look bad in front of others to clean up your stuff. Um a willingness to let other people say no, they're not going to accept you no matter what changes you think you're making.
33:23.80
Ben Owden
Are.
33:32.47
Ben Owden
And.
33:41.38
Alexsys Thompson
But stay in alignment with that's who I am to be in the world and anchor it all from a heart centered place. So most of us live in a world where our brains are what got us the job right? We're smart we know something we can do something. Maybe it's our hands.
33:53.49
Ben Owden
A.
33:58.91
Alexsys Thompson
Very rarely did we get the job or the opportunity because our heart was awesome right? that someone would say let me get the cfo job because she's the most heartfelt financial person I've ever met I have never heard that before maybe it exists right? I've heard lesly get the job because she can do she can reduce our quarter clothes.
34:04.27
Ben Owden
Um, and.
34:10.35
Ben Owden
Ah, yeah.
34:17.94
Alexsys Thompson
By 44% in a year right? That's what they're what we hear so we have to start being that change. We want to see in the world in a world where where things are not how do I say it's that's not what I want to say.
34:21.33
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
34:33.10
Alexsys Thompson
Where love isn't what we're seeing a lot of let's just think about Israel right now and what's going on over there. We have to be that love we have to take that stand and when Martin Luther did that he he put his life at risk right? and everyone that followed him to do that that stood up.
34:36.96
Ben Owden
A.
34:50.98
Alexsys Thompson
Passively let's say I wouldn't choose that word but I get where it comes from to stand up in Love is not a passive action. It is a brave courageous action and it's equally courageous to look inside yourself when you're not congruent and loving yourself. But again we leap right? back right. To the inner work and that's the work of the graceful leader clean up your house. Do that work and then be that cleaned up version of you in the world and amazing things will come and amazing things will happen as a byproduct of you being graceful and loving in the world and that doesn't mean a doormat It doesn't mean you don't have values.
35:10.77
Ben Owden
Are.
35:23.76
Ben Owden
Are.
35:28.44
Alexsys Thompson
And it doesn't mean you don't have boundaries all those things actually are loving. Yeah.
35:33.76
Ben Owden
Um, and speaking of you know I think as continuing this martin Luther King metaphor where you know integration. Although other people felt like you know theres there's a sense of duality in.
35:40.30
Alexsys Thompson
Um, yeah.
35:48.96
Alexsys Thompson
Name. Whatever.
35:50.66
Ben Owden
In the approach because in the world we live in Duality is what has been accepted right? There's winning. There's losing. There's black. There's white. You know you meet a target. You don't meet a target. There's profit. There's lost. There's positive. There's negative. Ah.
35:58.10
Alexsys Thompson
Yes.
36:05.82
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah.
36:07.80
Ben Owden
But but you speak about this idea of moving past ah duality and to a more unified way of living and I think when you talk about the corporate world where it is an outcome-driven world you are measured by the outcome I think in more evolved Organizations. You know you either win or you learn? Um, but very few of them not too many of them. So So how do we? How do we do this in a corporate world where things are very either or very black or white. How do we.
36:35.17
Alexsys Thompson
Um, yes, obvious.
36:43.35
Alexsys Thompson
Now.
36:45.83
Ben Owden
Learn to accept this idea of being integrated. Um I think Simon Sinnic has a book where he talks about you know playing the infinite game where there is no winning or losing. There's just playing um, but again these are all new ideas that not many organizations have accepted. So how do we.
36:55.30
Alexsys Thompson
No.
37:04.95
Ben Owden
Move past the binary way of thinking in the corporate world to a more integrated way of thinking.
37:12.23
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, so we change how we move in the world. We change what we accept in the world. We align our values and vision to the things that we say are important in the world. The truth is if we if we go back just what a few a couple 2 three years now and the world stopped rotating right? pandemic.
37:30.83
Ben Owden
Um, and.
37:31.60
Alexsys Thompson
Wherever your position on that We all learned something and one of the things that I took from that personally was how resilient we are in a moment of crisis which we see all the time people can come together in Crisis. And the whole idea that there was another way to work another way to come together another way to get metrics met and there was it started breaking down the barriers between around mental health we're willing to talk about things. We were not willing to talk about in the work world before.
37:58.26
Ben Owden
Are.
38:10.35
Alexsys Thompson
Were taboo for sure and we're willing to say um to be on a Zoom meeting with our boss and our kids running around the background that would never have happened before so all of a sudden that offered that pause that we had in this world offered us huge opportunities.
38:10.82
Ben Owden
Um.
38:21.26
Ben Owden
You know.
38:28.91
Alexsys Thompson
For that dual thinking to just take a break I can be at home pajamas on the bottom Polo on the top kids screaming in the background and still get my work done like is that really a thing and where it is great and where it isn't it needs to be worked on because I don't think it's all perfect by any means. Um.
38:42.20
Ben Owden
Um.
38:47.19
Alexsys Thompson
But it allowed us to just pause and go Ha. There's another way to do this and it doesn't have to be this or that and and I'm sure you're seeing what I'm seeing with my clients leaders are struggling with what's hybrid mean how do I get people back together but allow them that flexibility for their families and life outside the office. Um. That's a struggle that a lot of leaders are having right now and I'm encouraged that we're in that conversation because what it says is that maybe it doesn't have to be this or that maybe something else exists in that gray matter and just the fact that we're entertaining that there is gray matter that might have.
39:10.46
Ben Owden
Um.
39:19.11
Ben Owden
Are.
39:25.56
Alexsys Thompson
Better answers and more resilience than the sorting of black and white right and wrong. Good and bad gives me a lot of hope along with the younger generations that are coming in demanding to do work that's purposeful which I think is great for all of us. Um I feel excited about it I feel like we can all just.
39:44.83
Ben Owden
Are.
39:45.35
Alexsys Thompson
Take a breath and when we when we think it's this or that just pause to stop and go is it is it this or that what else could exist rather than that. Um I know for me, it's been life changing and I've been willing to take on projects that before.
39:51.21
Ben Owden
Are a.
40:03.61
Alexsys Thompson
I wouldn't really have wanted to do because it didn't bring in enough money or it wasn't working with the right people or whatever the thing was and now I take on and do things that are way more fun. You know I didn't even have fun as a factor which was silly. Um.
40:12.87
Ben Owden
Um.
40:15.39
Ben Owden
A.
40:21.66
Alexsys Thompson
And now it's one of the key things that I'm looking for is like how can we have fun doing this. How can I have fun in this conversation with Ben sharing thoughts and ideas. So I think that if we're just acknowledge that we do it because we have to sort through the world and prioritize and move. That's all true, but once and.
40:24.30
Ben Owden
Are a.
40:37.00
Ben Owden
And.
40:41.50
Alexsys Thompson
Stop and ask what the mischief is is like if I didn't have to pick this or that what would I choose and new opportunities start to present themselves in that infinite possibility that Simon talks about yeah.
40:46.96
Ben Owden
Are.
40:52.84
Ben Owden
And you know because you mentioned Covid there which it's this thing that forced all of us to adapt and change to some degree and another idea that you talk about is all this idea of Pattern breaking.
40:57.78
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah.
41:07.62
Alexsys Thompson
Yep.
41:11.22
Alexsys Thompson
Who yeah.
41:12.81
Ben Owden
And Covid is an external event that came in and destroyed some of our patterns in terms of how we interact with each other in terms of how we work etc and but you talk about curiosity as a practice that sort of can achieve the same end.
41:28.81
Alexsys Thompson
Um, yeah, fifth.
41:30.59
Ben Owden
Where instead of waiting for some external event to come and disrupt how you operate?? Ah, but how about cultivating a sense of curiosity and and and you write in your book Sometimes the patterns we're operating from are based on inaccurate or incomplete information Curiosity is our tool for Pattern Interruption. And so how do we develop a sense of unrestricted curiosity because sometimes curiosity is curiosity is within what we're comfortable with so I'll just play in this box I will not get out of this box right here. So How do we develop this sense of unrestricted curiosity.
41:57.67
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:09.70
Ben Owden
Ah, in our personal lives. But also you know in how we show up in the in the workplace and and how can this look like on a day-to-day basis.
42:15.62
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, so I don't know if you've read many books but like there's a lot of really cool books out there about the first ninety days in your new job right? And when you're you're coming in green and you see all the things right? and you see it differently than someone that's been there one hundred and ten days
42:31.35
Ben Owden
Are.
42:33.23
Alexsys Thompson
Or 5 years or a decade you just you see things differently and so there's this period that if you can figure out for yourself. How to harness that the newness of an event the excitement of something. Um. And the constant questions that you might have like how do you do that? And why do you do that? just because you're learning right? You're trying to get into a system and learn the the way forward the the human dilemma often is though is that it's like that ninety first day you become a part of the thing right? It's and I'm not saying.
42:53.36
Ben Owden
Are.
43:08.90
Alexsys Thompson
To fight the integration into the system because you chose that system but a couple of really good ways to that I found for me to stay curious are to when I was in corporate America I would make sure that I would have lunches on ah every month I scheduled lunch with someone that was in a department that I didn't know anything about. I would just look in the rolod x kind of thing back in the day and I'd pick a name and I'd call them and I'd say can I take you to lunch and I would stay really fresh with what's going on in the business structure in supply chain or in accounting in finance or whatever the thing was that I wasn't in.
43:34.13
Ben Owden
Are.
43:45.66
Alexsys Thompson
And that allowed me to keep this freshness this curiosity inside the structure. It also allowed me to see opportunities galore like I can remember 1 time when I was sitting with a supply chain person and they were talking about resourcing and I had just had lunch with a accounting person.
43:54.14
Ben Owden
Are.
44:04.30
Alexsys Thompson
And so I knew something was going on over here and I just got them together and this really cool thing ended up getting funded that never would have been able to because they just wouldn't have known each other you know what I mean so it's just it's things like that. It's just it's that childlike awe and it goes right back to gratitude if you want to inspire all in your world.
44:08.62
Ben Owden
Are.
44:22.54
Alexsys Thompson
Pick up a gratitude practice of any sort get out in nature play with an animal be with children but anything you can do to get out of your head and into your heart is going to help you get there faster. Yeah.
44:34.57
Ben Owden
Um, well speaking of getting into your heart and you know when people think of hard think of emotions and sometimes we're not very curious about.
44:38.40
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, yeah. Smooth.
44:49.58
Alexsys Thompson
In.
44:50.90
Ben Owden
Our own emotions we have emotions that we accept. There are then those that we don't accept you know Anger is unacceptable but you know like you saying its sense of gratitude or generosity or kindness or love and empathy. Those are more accepted but you you.
44:55.45
Alexsys Thompson
Okay, pass.
45:09.99
Ben Owden
Shared this story in the book about I think a friend of yours Ah, who was communicating about you know the feeling of stress that she was experiencing and you highlight particularly the the language that she was using and the impact that happened once she Changed. Language Um, you say she learned to separate herself from her stress before she was stressed which is something that a lot of us say I'm stressed I'm anxious. Um, and then you say she recognized that she wasn't stressed rather she was under stresssed she was under stress.
45:36.96
Alexsys Thompson
Will I.
45:48.23
Ben Owden
So when I read this I was like okay should we aim to be on on top of the stress. Um as this is something That's just standing over ah but also how impactful is the language we use when we describe.
45:52.88
Alexsys Thompson
Yes, who.
46:03.55
Ben Owden
Our emotions, especially emotions that we deem undesirable.
46:05.72
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, so first of all, words are how we move our world. You know there's a I had a teacher while back and he said to me, you know Lexi Fish Swim in water and people swim in words. It's the communications how we move our world everything moves through that. And I I still wrestle with it sometimes when I think about it and I'm like is that really true, but it served me really well because then I got very interested in the words that I used in my internal dialogue and I watched how unkind I was to myself and then I then I was like well no wonder you're angry.
46:42.26
Ben Owden
Um.
46:44.44
Alexsys Thompson
You tell yourself, you're not good at anything. No wonder you feel ashamed. You know that internal dialogue was unkind and I wouldn't have talked to my best friend or my worst enemy that way. So I said okay here's some good rich place for me to do some work and so I started recreating my internal dialogue.
46:47.49
Ben Owden
Um, and.
46:53.79
Ben Owden
Are.
47:03.33
Alexsys Thompson
And don't get it all the time sometimes I still say oh, you're such an idiot kind of thing. But as soon as I'm aware of it I'll clean it up and say okay, are you an idiot or did you just make a mistake and what do you need to do to get back from that and so those types of things create your heart your heart stays open in those conversations. Typically if you're gonna berate yourself. There's all these walls and things we can do with our heart that shut it down and make it less accessible to ourselves much less to somebody else. So the more interactivity you can do to keep it online the more likely you're gonna be to.
47:35.78
Ben Owden
Um.
47:41.60
Alexsys Thompson
Um, make decisions from a heart base place and while it is emotions. Um, when I feel angry because I have that emotion a fair amount sometimes and I always say oh literally this is my conversation. But oh you're here again. What is it, You want me to know and if I sit with that. There's a hurt.
47:50.11
Ben Owden
Are.
48:00.64
Ben Owden
Are.
48:01.58
Alexsys Thompson
Most often something my feelings got hurt. You know something happened that I got to go deal. Do some self soothing and sometimes I have to have go have a conversation with someone because I didn't realize that something I experienced hurt me and I would want to clean that up with someone or if I hurt someone else. So.
48:20.70
Ben Owden
Um.
48:20.43
Alexsys Thompson
But the heart is emotions but it's also intuition and that's a whole mother kitten caboodle to open up. Yeah.
48:28.20
Ben Owden
Um, and I think you know speaking of intuition that you just mentioned and you know rightly said it's a very big um you know idea or constructs to unpack. But you also talk about intuition in in the book as well and you say.
48:38.84
Alexsys Thompson
Love up over.
48:45.90
Ben Owden
Ah, the graceful leader is present at the moment and understands when to take action and when to be still so it's almost saying that a graceful leader is someone who is to a degree led by their intuition. So so how do we strengthen our intuition to get to a point where.
48:49.96
Alexsys Thompson
Yes, cool.
48:59.69
Alexsys Thompson
Um, that.
49:05.16
Ben Owden
Can do this efficiently because ah some of us have a very toxic relationship with our intuition because you know we've fed it the wrong stuff and it's led us into all kinds of bad situations and so now we don't really trust our intuition we question our intuition and.
49:11.46
Alexsys Thompson
Plan.
49:20.30
Alexsys Thompson
I thought.
49:24.80
Ben Owden
Ah times you look for external validation to do something that you know you feel in your gut. Maybe this is something that I should be doing So how do we strengthen our intuition such that it actually does lead us to a more integrated life. Um.
49:26.67
Alexsys Thompson
Um, yeah, oh.
49:42.61
Alexsys Thompson
So um, I would say the thing that helped me the most and what I as a result I see with others is well. It's probably 3 things honestly. So gratitude. Um, keep going back to that because it it was the one. Um. Actual commitment I made to myself and that I have kept with for the decades that was the key that unlocked so many other amazing things for me specifically and I'm witnessing that in many others. So gratitude was a way to intuition to to play with it safely and refine. It.
50:14.73
Ben Owden
A.
50:17.69
Alexsys Thompson
On the more scary side of that fear is a really good place to start sniffing around pick out some fears that you have that you intellectually know are kind of silly like I don't want you to think you know you can fly if you can't but if but if you have if you have a fear of conflict. This is a huge one in the work world right? Why just start asking yourself. Well why do I fear conflict where did that come from. Is it true. How can I upgrade that where can I go to learn more about it who can I trust who are a couple safe places for me to just like keep asking me the question. Why what would happen if.
50:39.63
Ben Owden
Um, and.
50:54.15
Alexsys Thompson
And just be willing to go way way down wherever it takes you um and intuition will start to come back online because it's always there right? It's It's always there whether we like it or not but it'll move from a gut reaction because that's where most of us.
51:08.28
Ben Owden
Um.
51:13.80
Alexsys Thompson
For me, it started is ah not doesn't feel good in my belly or it doesn't feel good in my heart or somewhere my body be aware of that that those are huge cues where you feel emotions in your body. Um, and then just start playing with that intuition. Just ask it silly things like you know, um I want to go. To the park on Sunday is that is that an alignment should I go to the park on Sunday and just be still and listen to your body and your your body will answer for you. It'll be like yeah let's go to the park or be like yeah I'd rather read a book or whatever. But as you start doing that in really safe places. Then the game comes back online and you can get into and this is where I want all I would love all leaders to be online because when you're in crisis intuition is the first thing the first way you can move through crisis before your head comes online or anything else. So if your intuition comes in on crisis. And you can go. Okay I need to pivot left and then you can check with your head because you don't just leave everything out and your head goes. Yeah, that seems like a reasonable thing then you're able to move in that crisis with Swift a swiftness a gracefulness and a precision that will separate you as a leader from many others.
52:26.90
Ben Owden
Um, ah.
52:28.20
Ben Owden
A.
52:30.10
Alexsys Thompson
It's It's been so um, humbling to watch leaders that have that skill set.
52:36.80
Ben Owden
Well thank you, Thank you for for making that very clear and and I like that It's very simple practice. You can start with safe spaces and then that crisis which we all know it's inevitable. It's going to come. It's coming um then by the time it it arrives you're actually ready.
52:47.91
Alexsys Thompson
4 mother.
52:53.20
Ben Owden
Ah, now as we're drawing to a close you talk about 6 tenets of graceful leadership in the book. So if you could please share with us what what they are and among the 6 What's the foundational tene what's that one that's this is.
52:54.23
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, oh.
53:09.50
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so when you read the book what you learn is. There's no particular order right? because we all come into this material wherever we are and 1 usually speaks to you more than the others are like whatever you know.
53:11.80
Ben Owden
The most important of all of them.
53:21.42
Ben Owden
Are.
53:28.19
Alexsys Thompson
So Just leave the other ones they'll speak to you another time if you're willing to leave that book on your shelf. Um, so in no particular order. Um, we talk about integration which we've touched a lot on here right? And that's mind body and soul. Then we have evolving. It's the it's the um adjustment. And alignment of self to Soul. It's understanding the distinction that who you are what you are how you want to be in the world. What is ego What is character what is and what is soul and how do I get them to communicate to each other and have my behaviors align unified. There. Transparency with self and others and this is gonna be the one I tell you because in all the work that I've been doing with this. This is usually where it Starts. We are so unwilling to see ourselves honestly like in the mirror naked see ourselves right? And so.
54:07.90
Ben Owden
A.
54:15.59
Ben Owden
Are A. Are.
54:24.29
Alexsys Thompson
That's where it all has to start this is the inner job start with the transparency for self and then um, then I will put this little ah note here being naked with yourself is 1 thing and then you have to be situationally appropriate. How naked you need to be with others because. You know the emperor has no clothes. You would go out to the beach in your bikini with some friends and you might put on a sweatshirt with other friends so you need to understand as a leader who your audience is here when you're working on transparency outside of self so that's one caveat connecting with self and universe. That's the idea.
54:56.24
Ben Owden
Are.
55:03.52
Alexsys Thompson
There's something bigger than you and we all call it. Whatever we call it. But just that you aren't the thing. Whatever the thing is you are part of it for sure. But it doesn't begin and end with you. Um, and then cocreating it. The co-creative aspect this one I like a lot personally.
55:12.40
Ben Owden
Um, will.
55:15.51
Ben Owden
Are.
55:22.90
Ben Owden
A.
55:23.11
Alexsys Thompson
To play with nature and really like gas literally hug a tree and make relationships with things that are not what we call human whatever that might be for you for me, It's my dog. Whatever the things are right and then the the next one that I would say.
55:30.40
Ben Owden
Are a.
55:39.92
Alexsys Thompson
4 leaders is really important is the compassionate powerful because that one sits that one does deal with the duality and once you get that Concept. You can play with that idea in everything in your life I can't I don't have to be just compassionate or just powerful. How do I bring those things together to bring the best of both of them and myself. To my leadership and to the people I have the honor of leading.
56:06.12
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah.
56:06.14
Ben Owden
Um, wow. Thank you and you know to all the listeners I will put all the information on the description so you can access her books and her website where you can. Even book if you want coaching or any sort of service. We leave all that information there so you can get more but I highly recommend that you actually do read the book now there's the 1 1 1 question that we ask pretty much all of our guests who come on the podcast. So. I'm about to ask you that in a bit but 1 final question that I wanted to ask is this idea of humility because this we construct is not just you as a graceful leader giving and creating space. But.
56:45.54
Alexsys Thompson
Who.
56:55.73
Ben Owden
Actually the openness to receive as well and receiving is such a vulnerable position for a lot of people you you say you write in your book. There is humility in receiving because there's a story hidden inside the act of receiving that suggests.
56:56.64
Alexsys Thompson
Yes.
57:13.13
Ben Owden
You need something that you can't give yourself whether it be a physical item a favor or words of gratitude or praise. So how do we cultivate the humility required to truly open ourselves to receive from other people and I think sometimes because of this.
57:27.31
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah.
57:31.95
Ben Owden
Lack of humility and sometimes there's shame in it. You know you want something but you can't even ask for it. So how do we cultivate this humility where we have Ah, we're high in openness as far as receiving from other people.
57:42.44
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah, so I had a teacher that there's 2 things here that pivoted this pretty quickly for me one was I do you need we could begin to understand that there's no giving without receiving and vice versa.
57:57.31
Ben Owden
Are.
57:59.49
Alexsys Thompson
So if you are if we like to give which most most of us in leadership. Do we like to give our ideas our opinions ourselves all types of stuff but the dilemma is if there's no one on the other end receiving. There's no giving right? So understand that at times you're going to be receiving so that someone else can give.
58:13.23
Ben Owden
Ah.
58:18.88
Alexsys Thompson
And at times you're giving and so there's someone else doing the the act of receiving so just understanding that was a good mental model for me that that I needed equanimity or balance in that and the other thing that was really an aha for me 1 of um, a coach that I had a few little while back. But he said to me, you know Lexi every time that you don't allow someone to give to you. You Rob a learning experience from them and I'm I'm all about and he knew fundamentally that's really important to me that people are learning.
58:48.56
Ben Owden
Ah.
58:56.11
Alexsys Thompson
Pretty much all the time in some way or another growing and learning and so when I sat back and thought about that that if I if I didn't receive what Ben has to offer to me that I robbed you of learning how to give and give well right.
59:09.82
Ben Owden
A.
59:13.56
Alexsys Thompson
That wasn't ever anything I wanted to be online for So I Just kind of softened um myself in that moment and I was like oh well. Okay, so I'll just start receiving. That's fine, but then because then the other person is refining their giving capacity and I can only do that through Receiving. So I did it from like a teacher coach kind of another mental model to help me settle down so that if I got that stinking thinking of I don't need your help I can do it myself which is my go to line. Um I would settle myself down and be like even if I don't need it.
59:45.33
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
59:51.13
Alexsys Thompson
It's okay to receive it like I don't have to be arrogant and all that to someone who's willing to give me this gift it just it's not loving and I try I'm trying really hard the refining I'm doing in my life is leading with love and doing everything through the lens of love.
01:00:01.39
Ben Owden
Um, and.
01:00:09.87
Alexsys Thompson
And it wouldn't be loving to not receive your gift. Yeah yeah.
01:00:11.19
Ben Owden
Well thank you for that thoughtful response now the 1 one 1 right what's the one book that you read that you wish maybe you had your hands not book earlier in your life. What's the 1 habit that you developed eventually that.
01:00:26.31
Alexsys Thompson
Yeah.
01:00:30.76
Ben Owden
Maybe you would have been better if you developed it earlier as well and what's the 1 personal value that you will not compromise no matter the cost.
01:00:37.30
Alexsys Thompson
Okay, so my favorite book is right here. It's called behaving as if the god in all things matter and it's written written by Michelle small right? and this book spoke to me in the connecting tenant where I grew up catholic.
01:00:43.80
Ben Owden
Are.
01:00:56.63
Alexsys Thompson
And um, that was fine until it wasn't enough like it didn't it just wasn't enough for my soul. There was some other construct that I needed and she brought in other ways of seeing how the world energies worked together and it was really.
01:00:57.30
Ben Owden
Um, and.
01:01:10.62
Ben Owden
A.
01:01:15.19
Alexsys Thompson
Huge aha and a holy shit moment all at once. So that was a really good book and it's not like 1 of these you know, bestselling books. Although I wish it were so I would recommend that um and then the one habit. Oh well, that's easy. My gratitude practice.
01:01:19.14
Ben Owden
Um.
01:01:25.60
Ben Owden
And.
01:01:33.91
Alexsys Thompson
I mean Yeah, yeah, just yeah without my gratitude practice. Um, my life would simply not be worth living I don't know how it's to say that it's everything. It's so foundational and then the one value that I have that is non-negotiable.
01:01:34.44
Ben Owden
Ah I figure I was like yeah actually we probably? ah.
01:01:42.95
Ben Owden
Are.
01:01:53.14
Alexsys Thompson
You know people that know me is accountability like um I live I walk my talk So I mess stuff up all the time with people in all types of ways that normal people would do and if I don't catch it myself which I'd hope to do.
01:01:56.70
Ben Owden
Um.
01:02:02.97
Ben Owden
Um.
01:02:11.34
Alexsys Thompson
But if someone is brave enough to bring it to me I will sit in humility and receive that feedback and make adjustments. Um, and I want that in my key relationships in my life to be reciprocated.
01:02:15.90
Ben Owden
Are.
01:02:25.10
Ben Owden
Wow I like that accountability. Um, thank you so much for you know, being on the podcast and for sharing your work and truth I Really appreciate that I'll probably have to go back and listen to the.
01:02:28.44
Alexsys Thompson
And yeah.
01:02:41.75
Ben Owden
Conversation again. So thank you so much I don't know if you have any last words for audience. Yeah.
01:02:49.50
Alexsys Thompson
Well I Want to say? thank you to you right? It's part of my gratitude practice is that it's um, it's been a pleasure to spend this time with you I Also get a fair amount of request to do this work but I will say to you that your questions were thoughtful and poignant. And deep and I I honor that in you and I praise the work that you're doing through this book and many other books I'm in the world and thank you for showing up and doing that work. Yeah yeah.
01:03:18.10
Ben Owden
Ah, well thank you. Thank you? that means a lot and to our dear listeners This has been the Why Lead podcast and I'm your host Ben odin.