Why Lead?
"Everything rises and falls on leadership," - John Maxwell
My name is Ben Owden and I have weekly conversations with leaders. I hope that these conversations will help you find the clarity and conviction to lead a more meaningful and impactful life. I’ve curated some of the best thinker practitioners from all over the world to help you get to your leadership nirvana.
Why Lead?
0058 - Five Keys for Unshakable Peace and A formula for Successful Conversations ft Jeremie Kubiceck
Unveil the secrets to a more peaceful and purposeful life with Jeremie Kubichek on the latest episode! Discover how to quantify and manage your peace using the groundbreaking Peace Index. Dive deep into the journey of finding your unique purpose, breaking free from external expectations. Learn the art of balance for increased influence, explore communication mastery to prevent breakdowns, and unlock meaningful relationships one conversation at a time.
Jeremie Kubicek along with co-author Steve Cockram have done it again. They have written a practical leadership book packed with a proven method for unlocking relationships and helping teams and organizations grow. Below is the link to the book, Communication Code.
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00:05.56
Ben Owden
Greetings to you I hope you are at peace and are having a meaningful and productive day welcome to another episode of the Why Lead podcast I am your host Ben Owden.
I have a question for you today in this moment right here right now. Are you at peace. Do you have peace even with all the chaos around you are you at peace my second question to you are you a leader worth following. The people who follow you follow you because they want to or because they have to these are some of the questions that will be the focus of our conversation today and so to explore this world of peace and sherpra-like leadership I am joined by an impactful communicator a Syria entrepreneur. And content builder um his thought leadership is used by some of the largest companies around the globe. He has authored books like 100 x leader 5 voices 5 gears making your leadership come alive. The piss index and the upcoming book communication code. He is the co-founder of giant a company that certifies coaches and consultants that serve clients across the world ladies and gentlemen Jeremy Kubicek
01:26.25
Jeremie Kubicek
Ben I am so fired up to be with you. Super excited to talk and for those listening really excited just explore a little bit maybe leave you with some encouragement some ideas and thoughts that can really serve you.
01:42.17
Ben Owden
I'd like to start with this question that you know it's come up in your book. How are you today? Jeremy and what is your number?
01:52.82
Jeremie Kubicek
Yeah, so you know the question of how are you which is funny Ben because most people ask that I don't um I'm sure it's the same way in Africa like hey how are you and how's it going and people are like yeah good you and then you're like yeah, good and nothing was all we're saying is high.
02:01.72
Ben Owden
Yeah.
02:07.22
Ben Owden
And.
02:10.60
Jeremie Kubicek
But what what I'm really wanting to know Well sometimes I'm not wanting to know right? if you ask someone? How are they doing and then they're a shrug and they look like they're not doing Well you're like oh no I don't have time you're telling but the idea that is every single person listening has a number over their head right now.
02:17.20
Ben Owden
I Don't want to get into this now. Yeah.
02:29.00
Jeremie Kubicek
And that number is a quantified number of how well how at peace they are and some days you're at 82 some days you're at a 74 some days you're at a ninety one I'll often joke and say that we're often as good as our week as child meaning that if one of your kids is off.
02:44.36
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
02:48.14
Jeremie Kubicek
Or there's a situation going on then there's a drama that number could drop in that one day. So the the idea is what is that number that's over your head and so I've quantified that and basically created the piece index that gives you 5 categories where you can actually figure it out.
02:51.68
Ben Owden
E.
03:03.30
Ben Owden
E.
03:06.77
Jeremie Kubicek
And and the goal being could you actually manage your own emotions. So that people don't have to manage your emotions.
03:14.15
Ben Owden
And and you know when when it comes to peace because Peace is one of those words you know as rightly said in your book. It comes up quite a lot. You know sometimes when people leave there's a peace out. Um you know I think in every culture There's ah a sign of you know of peace. Um, I think right now if you just do the 2 ah fingers right? The peace sign everybody. It's globally recognized as the peace sign. So It's It's a concept that we're familiar with um across the world but sometimes I think when we think of peace some of us think of this utopia-like state where everything.
03:30.85
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, yeah.
03:36.34
Jeremie Kubicek
Person.
03:48.21
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, world peace. Yeah.
03:49.60
Ben Owden
Is going? Well Ah, but you know in your book you share a framework that sort of makes this promise that you followed you will experience peace when your purpose is off when your future looks grim when people in your life are driving you crazy when your environment is less than ideal. Um, and your. Personal Health is struggling and by that statement it means pretty much anyone can experience peace no matter where they are in life right now. How do we get there.
04:20.38
Jeremie Kubicek
Yeah, so the weather's an internal piece and there's external peace and I think that's what you're saying is ah external piece is what most people think about hey peace in Russia Ukraine peace in the world. But that.
04:21.99
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
04:34.10
Jeremie Kubicek
What what look like to have internal peace when there's no external peace when there's no peace at work. Can you have peace in your in your soul in your mind and and so breaking peace down. There's really the 5 categories. There's purpose purpose is a big driver of peace.
04:35.22
Ben Owden
Are.
04:49.50
Ben Owden
Yeah.
04:52.00
Jeremie Kubicek
There's no purpose. It's hard to have peace and peace is really more about today whereas hope is more about tomorrow hope is what you hope the future is like peace is what you feel in the day. So there's purpose. There's people can affect your piece. Place can affect your piece.
04:56.38
Ben Owden
E.
05:11.11
Jeremie Kubicek
Which is where you live your commute your office your environment your neighborhoods ah personal health and personal health is a combination of mental physical and spiritual a lot of people think spiritual out but spiritual is the key to a lot of the peace.
05:19.89
Ben Owden
And.
05:28.20
Jeremie Kubicek
And then you have the provision which is your earnings. Um, it's your your ability. It's money. It's having enough and it's not what you want. It's what you need Do you have enough to meet your needs. It's not do you have enough for that car you want or the you know.
05:28.59
Ben Owden
None.
05:36.80
Ben Owden
Just and.
05:47.70
Jeremie Kubicek
The gucci purse or whatever. Yeah I'm not a gucy guy but you don't I mean whatever is out there. So I'm not talking about wants I'm talking about needs and when you put those 5 together they make up your piece. The the peace index the number that's over your head and most people um they generally win.
05:50.59
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
05:58.75
Ben Owden
And and.
06:07.38
Jeremie Kubicek
They're generally frustrated. Um, ah it's not going like I hoped or it's not being my expectations or when you break it down. Well what isn't is it. Your purpose is it. Your people is it your place and people wake up and like it's my place and it's my neighbor. The people.
06:20.85
Ben Owden
And.
06:26.63
Jeremie Kubicek
Drive me nuts and I don't like my location and so then I ask can you move or can you not move and if you can't move then what can you control control the controllables and what it does is just basically breaks down and gives you the the.
06:32.31
Ben Owden
E.
06:45.56
Jeremie Kubicek
Numbers. It gives you the area and direction to look at.
06:46.23
Ben Owden
which which I think is quite important because I think sometimes when peace can be can come off as an abstract concept. What is it exactly. But I think I like the idea of breaking it down into those 5 areas and focusing on. Specific area because like you're saying sometimes it's actually a job maybe that you know just a simple. Maybe not so simple for a lot of people but you know switching that then suddenly your overall piss ah goes up something else that you say as well is you know the path towards peace begins when you identify.
07:14.72
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, those are.
07:21.20
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, offense.
07:25.95
Ben Owden
The barriers between you and peace and so what are some of the first steps that we need to take to identify these barriers that stand in between us and this ideal place of peace.
07:40.26
Jeremie Kubicek
Well I think that's where you break you break down. What is your lowest so what you do is you take 5 numbers one hundred is the highest so you go purpose one through a hundred. How are you today I'm 85 okay how are you on people today. Ah 72
07:52.28
Ben Owden
He.
07:57.48
Jeremie Kubicek
Am I in place and you take all 5 of them and then you go well which one is your lowest now you can do something about it. Well my lowest is people okay inside that is it 1 person a group of people. Well I've got someone in sick in our family. Okay, what can you control.
08:02.91
Ben Owden
Ah.
08:17.43
Jeremie Kubicek
Not much so now what it does is it gives you this opportunity to go. This is what's really affecting me now. What can you do about it. Is there a game plan. You can do um like I mentioned place Sometimes it's purpose and sometimes you just need to go and talk about it with someone.
08:33.43
Ben Owden
And.
08:36.42
Jeremie Kubicek
Need to go meet with a coach like you Ben or we need to go spend some time with with someone to actually help them um unpack and figure out what their future should be or what their purpose is so I think what it is is really finding out where the pain is and then taking out the thorn.
08:47.24
Ben Owden
Um, and.
08:52.81
Ben Owden
And.
08:55.63
Jeremie Kubicek
Taking out the issue and actually doing the work on the lowest. The other part is which one is most important to you out of those 5 which one is your driver for me purpose for a lot of other people. It could be people but there's purpose people place.
08:59.96
Ben Owden
Are e.
09:13.88
Jeremie Kubicek
Personal health or provision which one is most important purpose is most important for me if it's low. Everything else is low. So that's how ah the peace Index The book is used just to help people figure out.
09:15.20
Ben Owden
Are. E.
09:29.84
Jeremie Kubicek
Ah, which area is off and then building a game plan to both.
09:30.38
Ben Owden
Yeah, and actually you know speaking of what you just said there right for you. Purpose is the most important of the 5 p words is there a core like an undisputed foundational indicator or is it really. More of a personal choice that to every individual it's going to be something different. Always there fundamentally this has to be the most important.
09:58.38
Jeremie Kubicek
Well I have I've done this hundreds of times almost close to thousands of times where I've spoken done speaking keynote workshop talked about it purpose and people are the top 2 drivers. Um, so the top 2 most important are usually in those 2 categories very rarely is money provision the number 1 driver even though people need it. It's not number one It's usually 2 3 or 4 a place or personal health even are lower people.
10:20.94
Ben Owden
A.
10:34.18
Jeremie Kubicek
It's purpose and people tend to be the highest level in my research. Um, as far as driver now the lowest happens to be personal health. The lowest usually is personal health followed by provision usually but personal health is the one.
10:38.83
Ben Owden
Um.
10:43.25
Ben Owden
And and.
10:54.25
Jeremie Kubicek
Often scores the lowest and then purpose is pretty high in my research as well. So I think that's interesting to think. Ah, if you think purpose people is your driver Personal health is your lowest. You've got a game plan there and most people know what to do.
10:59.29
Ben Owden
E.
11:12.46
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, personal health. They just don't do it. They know not eat the you know they know they need to walk more and exercise and it's just they don't do it and so ah, there's a direct correlation between that action and peace.
11:14.99
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
11:21.93
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
11:28.24
Ben Owden
Yeah, and and I think maybe you know you speak about purpose. Um versus say personal health or people versus personal health I think personal health in my own experience. You know whenever I'm I'm busy speak about the 5 pas whenever life gets crazy.
11:45.10
Jeremie Kubicek
Um.
11:45.69
Ben Owden
The first one to drop is personal health. Um, and I think it could be because maybe the consequences of ignoring it ah come much later in life. It's not immediate. You know if I ignore my wife.
11:47.72
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, yes.
11:55.11
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, they show up later? Yeah yeah, ah.
12:00.83
Ben Owden
I Feel that pretty much you know in a few days. Ah ah same thing with purpose I think you know that sense of emptiness and purposelessness I think you feel that very quickly. Um, so maybe really not using our current feelings as an indicator to.
12:07.10
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, yeah.
12:18.75
Ben Owden
Nowhere to focus on but really understanding that even the silent indicators are just as important as well.
12:25.37
Jeremie Kubicek
The beauty of the tests of the peace index as you can take it. We have some people take it daily I think that's a little much a lot of people would take it weekly or monthly and it's also really great to have conversations with a spouse or with kids or with coworkers.
12:30.82
Ben Owden
A he.
12:39.60
Ben Owden
A.
12:42.34
Jeremie Kubicek
So if I got I go hey Ben instead of saying hey Ben how are you today I go hey Ben worship peace index where are you at and we have common language now we have a common tool and framework then you can get well right now. Ah, my purpose is a little. It's trending down.
12:49.29
Ben Owden
A a.
13:00.80
Ben Owden
Um.
13:01.40
Jeremie Kubicek
And I'm having and now we have this objective common language that allows us to really work on each other's life in a much more productive way than me trying to probe and go no really Ben how are you come on man tell me how are you really? and.
13:10.43
Ben Owden
E.
13:18.22
Ben Owden
Um, yeah, yeah.
13:20.86
Jeremie Kubicek
You're like man what are yourying, You're being nosy and instead you're like which is it. What's what's off and then usually I start because I'm being authentic I go hey where's your piece Index Um I'm a little bit low right now in people.
13:36.88
Ben Owden
Um, yeah, yeah.
13:37.67
Jeremie Kubicek
And I've got this one situation I'm I'm working on it. How about you and then now you're a little bit more open because I was vulnerable.
13:46.45
Ben Owden
Yeah, interesting I think I had a phone call today with with someone and they didn't ask me how are you? they basically said ah all is well and my response was well enough things are well and immediately. They're like up I'll start praying for you. Um, and I was just like do we ever get to a point where all is well. Um, but it was very interesting and I think immediately I realized how we're operating from very different places I think now the more I learn about all these different things I have language too. Precisely respond to something someone is asking but I think the majority of people were just like in that rhythm where yeah every all is well all good. All good. And yeah.
14:30.55
Jeremie Kubicek
Well but that's what happened with me so years ago. Um I used to um I used to own John Maxwell's assets I I ran the built the leader cast brand the catalyst conferences. All of these big american brands and had. Partnerships with Pat Lynsioni and Henry Cloud and all these different thought leaders and there was a point that happened where I realized that there was a twentieth century learning style and twentieth century learning was kind of jargon based a lot of leadership jargon a lot of events and books and.
14:56.19
Ben Owden
A.
15:03.32
Jeremie Kubicek
And I shifted with a business partner Steve Cochran he and I we started building visual tools because we realized that the world was moving towards these cell phones the devices and everything was visual and it it was also there was so much content that you had to you had to teach something.
15:12.53
Ben Owden
Devices and.
15:23.12
Jeremie Kubicek
Ah, and and scale it multiply it. So if I teach you the piece index now you can then go and teach the piece index and when you teach you learn so we created 75 tools the piece index is one of them and those tools can all be written on a cocktail napkin.
15:28.59
Ben Owden
A a.
15:41.62
Jeremie Kubicek
So that you can teach somebody else. So it's just a really simple process of visual learning. It's twenty first century learning. We move from subjective language to objective language now if I go hey Ben where are you in the peace index.
15:51.45
Ben Owden
E.
15:59.20
Jeremie Kubicek
From now on you know those 5 p's and now we have a common framework to work off of that's the secret of what's happening in twenty first century learning today most we're adjusting that we've got this old guru model. That's no longer working.
16:03.26
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
16:13.11
Ben Owden
Are.
16:16.43
Jeremie Kubicek
And then publishing has changed and content has changed so we've just been on the forefront of that for a long time trying to build twenty first century toolkits for people so that they can have faster better conversations.
16:27.56
Ben Owden
Um, yeah, yeah, definitely I think ah one that I really like is the the hope meter which it's very very visual. You know, um and I just like you know instead of saying. Ah. I'm somewhat hopeful you know, but actually giving very um precise you know state that this is where I am um I like that now something else that you say is you know we all have purpose but only some of us find it I think um, the world we live in today. There's a purpose crisis.
17:02.24
Jeremie Kubicek
Is this.
17:03.30
Ben Owden
So to speak a lot of people have this existential crisis. Why am I here some people start businesses in search of a purpose some people quit jobs because there's a sense of meaninglessness around that. Um and so purpose almost seems like this fuel that we need to really run our engine. And yet not everyone you know is at a place where they believe that they have found or selected their purpose. So one The the question here is because you speak about this idea of purpose versus responsibility and. I've spoken to a lot of people who say that they operate from a place of duty and responsibility and not a sense of purpose and you can just tell that they're exhausted. Um, so is is peace sustainable without purpose and for those who say I don't even. I Don't even feel like I have any sense of purpose I don't know where to begin and there are books and things written. You know how to find your purpose but in your experience for someone who feels like I I don't know my purpose I've tried a number of things and like you know none of them have proven to be fruitful where do they start and at the same time. How long can a person run um on responsibility alone. You know, exclusive from purpose.
18:29.00
Jeremie Kubicek
It's a great conversations. Ben I mean I think it's a great question I honestly believe that most people are living someone else's purpose. So it's almost like well.
18:39.45
Ben Owden
Um.
18:43.34
Jeremie Kubicek
I'm a I'm a son and my dad needs me to do this so I'm going to do this and to go like I have ah an american college football player that I've been helping who's got opportunities his dad played in the Nfl he's got opportunities but his dad is forcing.
18:48.43
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
19:01.32
Ben Owden
A.
19:02.53
Jeremie Kubicek
His purpose on his son and I said so you're 21 do you have a leash on you right now like he have he is. He's holding the leash to your life is that what you want? How long are you gonna let him do this and I was really kind and I built a really good relationship with him and I was trying to like really.
19:12.28
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
19:22.27
Jeremie Kubicek
Poke and press to see how he would respond and he literally went through about a six month process of for the first time stepping into well why was I born. What's my identity. What are my superpowers. What am I called to do and that's really what purpose is purpose is.
19:22.38
Ben Owden
E.
19:29.79
Ben Owden
Are in.
19:41.36
Jeremie Kubicek
Do you know your identity. Do you know what? your gift mix is do you know? what? your personal calling is that gives you the opportunity to literally step into it but oftentimes people either aren't given given the opportunity from their parents or people are Afraid. So It's easier to live under someone else's purpose than to do the hard work to find it for themselves and oftentimes I find that people will say they're prohibited when it's actually their own inhibition. So where there's inhibition people will look and go well if you haven't found your purpose you might as well Do this.
20:06.32
Ben Owden
Um, and.
20:10.82
Ben Owden
E.
20:19.50
Ben Owden
Um.
20:21.26
Jeremie Kubicek
So but it's actually inhibition inhibition is your limiting belief. It's fear and that fear keeps people at Bay It keeps people from really really going for it.
20:22.91
Ben Owden
E.
20:29.99
Ben Owden
Um, and so something else that you know you speak of and and this is something that I've been personally as ah as an idea struggling with this idea of balance and when whenever you think of ah, any sort of tool or framework of multiple things.
20:51.28
Ben Owden
Do we aim for balance or what do we aim for exactly and you share a story in the book where you speak about this idea of losing while winning um and the lack of balance in your piss index and you say you know you overfocused on purpose and ignored your personal health. Um, which ended up affecting your purpose so losing while winning and my question is you know if we're using this blends of balance. Um, where it almost sounds like if you win in 1 area then you know it's this pendulum swinging right? if it's on.
21:26.82
Jeremie Kubicek
Mother or.
21:28.47
Ben Owden
Ah, far left. It's probably not on the far east so is it even possible to win without losing us in the context of you know, trying to attain peace by feeding into these 5 areas and should we aim for balance or something else.
21:41.40
Jeremie Kubicek
So well, let let me change the context to being overproductive and under presentent. So if you're overproductive and there's a lot of people that are like this especially the thinkers in the world.
21:57.84
Ben Owden
Um.
21:59.78
Jeremie Kubicek
Thinkers are so fixated and focused. They're so fixated and focused on productivity. But if you're not able to be present with people then over time you're going to undermine the relationships in your life if you undermine the relationships.
22:11.72
Ben Owden
A.
22:17.60
Jeremie Kubicek
Eventually that will catch up to you in divorce in um issues with your kids in people not wanting to be around you which will then cause your productivity to drop like a rock.
22:26.19
Ben Owden
Are a.
22:33.96
Jeremie Kubicek
So this idea of balance is actually the culmination of productivity with presence with people knowing there's a time and place for everything. There's a time for extreme productivity. There's also a time for connecting with your going on a walk with your spouse.
22:38.44
Ben Owden
A.
22:52.10
Jeremie Kubicek
There's also a time to connect with your kids. There's also a time to have that friendship. So this balance is actually putting the right calendar together. It's actually knowing when you should be in what gear like I need to be in productive gear.
23:06.70
Ben Owden
Um e.
23:08.33
Jeremie Kubicek
And now need to be in k connect gear and then I'm going to need to be in recharge gear and that's one of my goal's called the 5 gears and it talks about this whole principle so balance in on one hand is actually you need every gear every day. It's not being in one over the other.
23:09.74
Ben Owden
He.
23:21.44
Ben Owden
E.
23:27.37
Jeremie Kubicek
It's learning how to shift into the right gear at the right time.
23:30.35
Ben Owden
Yeah, and I think that comes at a cost There's something that I saw on on Twitter yesterday. Ah I thought it was very funny. Um, where a person said ah the ability to play chess is a sign of a gentleman the ability to play chess really well is a sign of a wasted life. And and the idea that you know the sense of being good enough in a lot of areas versus focusing sorely on one area and being exceptional at the cost of other important areas in your life and I think sometimes that's what's hard for a lot of us which is I know that if I am. Have to prioritize going for a walk with my wife playing with my kids. Um, you know being a part of a community whether it's a church or a mosque or um, you know a book club. Whatever it is then that means.
24:16.92
Jeremie Kubicek
Right.
24:22.43
Ben Owden
I'm not grinding you know or I'm not doing So I think that sense of a tradeoff and this counting the costs so to speak and saying okay I'll have to make some sacrifices in other areas. So that all the important areas keep moving I think that's hard for a lot of people to make those tradeoffs. Yeah.
24:37.97
Jeremie Kubicek
It is and that's why we go calendar it so we actually created a sign language for it. So there's a fifth gear is focus mode. It's when you're in the zone and you're getting things done. Fourth gear is task mode. Third gear is social second gears connect and first gear is recharge.
24:49.24
Ben Owden
A. And.
24:56.82
Jeremie Kubicek
So if you actually use a sign language then I can go hey Ben we are all. It's after work. We're hanging out we're talking. We're all in third gear and you come walking in going hey did you guys get that email from David and did he and we're like look man we're in 3 you're in 4
25:12.44
Ben Owden
E e.
25:15.66
Jeremie Kubicek
You're in the wrong gear at the wrong time. There's a time and place for everything and I think the relationally intelligent person. They they learn this. They learn how to get really good and go I'm going to I'm Goingnna spend 2 hours in fifth gear I'm going to get a lot done and then I'm going to have to hit pause. And I'm going to come back to that tomorrow and continue to make progress. But if I stay in fifth year for 8 hours and I ignore all the people in my life. My influence goes down dramatically and if I do that day after day after day then I actually don't have enough influence to be as productive as I want to be.
25:45.72
Ben Owden
Um, a.
25:52.28
Ben Owden
He.
25:55.25
Jeremie Kubicek
So It's actually strategic and smart. It's knowing you need time to recharge knowing you need time to connect knowing you need time for social knowing you need time soon. I mean it's like building that time into your calendar So I need every gear every day I need time to recharge I need time to focus. I Need time to to get my tasks done. So It's It's just an interesting way of of thinking about life.
26:19.17
Ben Owden
Yeah, and I think you know you also speak about this idea of business as as the enemy of influence like you know say so someone who's a fifth gear all times. Um, you know how that can affect your levels of influence within a particular system whether be it at work or. Home and and we see this. You know, but um, if you're a dad and you're always busy. There's a certain level of influence that's on a decline with your kids say oh with your spouse and and and and you know in the workplace it works pretty much everywhere yet many of us are taught you know you have to always have your foot on the gas. But all the time. So yeah I like that. Um now I want to so switch gears so to speak um and talk about communication a bit right? because I think especially if you work in ah in a system. Um, and you're trying to make some of these changes personally ah you would have to communicate with people.
27:05.58
Jeremie Kubicek
Test. Ah, this.
27:16.20
Ben Owden
You know so that ah you're not working against so many other forces. Um, now when you speak about peace. Um, and this is all you know stuff that I saw that you know will be featured in your upcoming book. Um, you talk about this idea of. Preventing communication attacks and restoring healthy communication flow now. Overall in you know and as I explode your work. You speak a lot about focusing on what you can control the controllables. Um, and when we think of communication.
27:38.57
Jeremie Kubicek
So.
27:53.87
Ben Owden
Can only control how we respond not so much about what's on the incoming. So how do we prevent communication attacks and restore healthy communication flow knowing that in that exchange we can only control how we respond.
28:07.19
Jeremie Kubicek
Well as I said in the beginning my goal for anyone listening is I want to help you become relationally intelligent. It's relationally unintelligent people who create most of the drama in the world and.
28:18.41
Ben Owden
E.
28:22.51
Jeremie Kubicek
That's what happens then is is actually our past. So let's say you and I have been. We've been friends for a long long time. Well you know how I'm going to communicate and respond because I have cycles and I have a past history and I know about you and I know your tendencies.
28:35.80
Ben Owden
E.
28:40.43
Jeremie Kubicek
So therefore if our past is negative then we're going to expect the worst in each other well here's Ben. Yep, he's going to come do his thing again or here's Jeremy he's going to so therefore communication attack. The communication issues come from.
28:49.18
Ben Owden
E.
28:59.90
Jeremie Kubicek
Past because we already know how we're going to respond so we have to actually restore redeem or work on the past to go hey I want to apologize Ben in the past I know I've been a jerk and I just want to tell you I'm really working on it and if you'll give me a shot.
29:05.24
Ben Owden
E.
29:17.79
Ben Owden
And.
29:18.21
Jeremie Kubicek
I Want to reset our communication Pattern I Want to reset our relationship and they're like well okay Wow Well I'm open I probably haven't been that great either right? That would be ideal that doesn't often happen because people aren't aware of themselves.
29:30.48
Ben Owden
Um, and.
29:33.94
Jeremie Kubicek
Let's say that um, let's say that that we have a good history. Um, and we want to make some changes in the we we want our relationship to be even better. We believe that you can actually affect and unlock relationships 1 conversation at a time by using what we call the communication code. Now we we know this because Steve and I my business partner we have dealt with we have had major communication issues in the past and we created this system and it solved we've been doing this for 17 years It works and it's basically the communication code it means that.
29:59.46
Ben Owden
A.
30:12.88
Jeremie Kubicek
Ah,, there's a code word that you have and there's a code word that I have and once we figure out what we're expecting and we do it then I'll have ah a better chance of communicating with you. There won't be these issues that maybe we've had in the past. So What it might look like there's um, there's they all are with C's but there's ah, there's celebration, care clarification, collaboration and critique. What I don't want is critique I'm a feeler I don't want critique. But.
30:38.34
Ben Owden
E.
30:48.55
Jeremie Kubicek
Steve my business partner. His favorite is critique. So guess what happens oftentimes I'll come with this idea I've been expecting to celebrate I'm wanting to celebrate I'm wanting to him to clarify and he'll bring well why did you do that wanted you just do it this way.
31:03.24
Ben Owden
E.
31:07.19
Jeremie Kubicek
And all of a sudden. My little cake with candles. He pours water on my candles and runs the cake and I'm like we had this great thing that just happened and you're critiquing it. Why are you critiquing in his mind. He's thinking he's collaborating.
31:11.77
Ben Owden
E.
31:24.28
Ben Owden
Are on. Ah.
31:25.76
Jeremie Kubicek
But it shows up as critique so he then says well why didn't you just tell me what you wanted and that's where the communication code came from. It's like the enigma code you tell someone what it is and then it changes people can read your your mind so Ben I'm wanting you to clarify I'm going to share an idea. I want you to clarify I already know you care so you don't need to worry about that I want you to clarify. But if you really like it I want you to celebrate it and then I'm totally open if you want to collaborate now I gave you the code.
31:49.67
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
31:56.48
Ben Owden
Um.
32:00.28
Jeremie Kubicek
Now we shouldn't have any issues because you're like okay so let me clarify what you're asking I Really like that. That's really really good. Have you ever thought you're okay if I collaborate right? Okay, have you ever thought about adding this that can even be even better now I'm like great.
32:06.64
Ben Owden
Are.
32:13.56
Ben Owden
E.
32:18.76
Jeremie Kubicek
We just had an opportunity but what happens is so many communication problems are expectation issues. You have an expectation of what you want from the other person and when they don't do it. We will shut down put our walls of self-preservation fold our arms and lean back.
32:23.45
Ben Owden
E.
32:38.38
Jeremie Kubicek
And that other person has no idea why they've why we're not communicating or connecting all we've done is created code words to go if you'll share the code word the chance of you miscommunicating goes down.
32:42.96
Ben Owden
Um, me yeah.
32:51.14
Ben Owden
Yeah, and I agree because I think I've sin. Well now I'll start using the 5 but um I think my wife and I at the very beginning of our marriage. Um, a big part of you know whenever there was a breakdown in our communication. It's because. You know she was expecting me to celebrate but I just came in with critique. Um, and I said something and and I thought I'm engaging in the conversations. You know why am I not getting that and eventually we started developing language to say okay, what are you expecting from this conversation. Um, but I like this idea but I think sometimes when you share some of these ideas some people feel like why is it so robotic. Why do we have to like I think people some of us live in this ideal. Ah fantasy so to speak where we we just we wish people would just get it. Where I don't have to but I think I like the mechanical approach of actually naming it because people are not going to know what you're expecting if you don't actually tell them what to expect.
33:56.16
Jeremie Kubicek
And and Ben I think that's a great point. It's mechanical in the beginning because communication isn't a 2 wo-way street if communication would work. You wouldn't have to use these tools so it's mechanical in the beginning but the more you use it over time you have. You won't have to use it the better you get at it. You'll start being aware because their reality is now if I'm with Ben I'm now thinking wonder what Ben wants what is he wanting here I might ask you the question hey before you you bring up a topic hey before we get into it. How.
34:16.30
Ben Owden
Um, only and.
34:22.88
Ben Owden
No.
34:34.00
Jeremie Kubicek
What would be most helpful. Do you want me to collaborate here or now I'm going to clarify I Want to make sure I get it but you want me to collaborate or celebrate what it what would be and you might go I want you to collaborate I Love how you think I'm like okay good I have permission.
34:34.15
Ben Owden
E.
34:53.14
Jeremie Kubicek
So then I'm not going to step on your toes. So it's actually honor I'm going to honor you by asking what your expectations are and I think that's ah if the more you try and do it the more natural it'll be and over time you won't even have to use the words.
34:55.27
Ben Owden
Um, and.
34:59.21
Ben Owden
Are.
35:11.48
Jeremie Kubicek
You'll actually figure out how to do it with the movie.
35:12.41
Ben Owden
Yeah, practice makes perfect. Yeah I like that. Um so conversations can also be very difficult I think part of the reason. Um communication is very hard is because when you have to. Ah, talk about very difficult um things. There's that fear of how a person might react, etc. Um, and especially if power dynamics are involved in the workplace displays out quite a lot where someone is having conversation with somebody else. It's easy if that person is a peer because then you know. There are no parad dynamics. You know? what's the worst that they can possibly do maybe just get angry and lash out at Me. Ah, but if somebody is ranking higher than you or they control resources that you're in need of um, in fact, one of my clients asked me. You know how? how do you challenge someone who holds your fate.
35:49.52
Jeremie Kubicek
Right.
36:03.44
Ben Owden
In their hands in which I thought was like whoa. Okay, um, so how can we begin to understand the power of relational dynamics in our interactions so that we get to a point where we eliminate this fear of honest conversation so we can truly get to a place where.
36:22.92
Ben Owden
Radical conversation. You know, radical honesty in conversations is something that's a reality for us. How do we get to that point.
36:29.30
Jeremie Kubicek
Yeah, so it's is so true in the beginning of the book. The communication code. We talk about the negative power test the power dynamics and so of the the past of a person. So if it's you to a boss. It's harder. Because you can't say hey you know because there's ramifications to that and that so it's back to control what you can Control. So What you're doing is you're in Essence you're trying to become a person of peace you're trying to be a person that um to the other person.
36:58.79
Ben Owden
Think a.
37:05.85
Jeremie Kubicek
You're mature they see you in your influence grows. So the more you use these tools the more other people will see it and go you know what your influence is rising even if your position is lower because you're managing yourself and you're managing communication and those people tend to.
37:15.84
Ben Owden
Yeah.
37:25.72
Jeremie Kubicek
Get promoted or there's opportunities of influence. So it's really, um, you working using all of these tools if you're listening using these tools to work on yourself because when you work on yourself. It's the first circle of influence.
37:36.79
Ben Owden
And.
37:43.19
Jeremie Kubicek
Then people will start seeing it in you and they'll go I like what I see what are you doing tell me about this and they're like yeah I'm using tools I'm using these life Hacks um to really lead myself to know myself and lead myself and understand my tendencies.
37:47.96
Ben Owden
E.
37:57.37
Ben Owden
Um, and.
38:01.53
Jeremie Kubicek
Change my patterns maybe upgrade my actions So that's that's the whole beauty of this is. It's basically we're creating tools again to help you become relationally intelligent.
38:02.69
Ben Owden
And.
38:13.92
Ben Owden
Wow. Um, now speaking of you know the 100 x leader. So the the podcast um initially ah you know was called y lead others right now we've transitioned to just y lead. So the concepts that you were talking about in one hundred x leader were concepts that resonated quite a lot with me because that's what we try to push to a lot of our clients becoming that someone who's worth following where people want to rather than you know they have to so.
38:34.57
Jeremie Kubicek
Move.
38:44.20
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, this.
38:48.85
Ben Owden
My question for you is you know what? what set of events really got you on a journey to even start to think that this is something that has to be embraced. Um, you know in the world of work and by companies. Um, how did you get to a point where you're like okay we have to aim to be and I know.
39:04.56
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, and.
39:08.78
Ben Owden
Hundred X liter and not just get to that point but actually get to a point where you even share this with the world.
39:15.72
Jeremie Kubicek
So first it it came through experiences I had I had lived in Russia so I had seen high challenge the culture of communism and low support and the domination that it produced in people. And the apathy and low expectations that was in the culture. So I watched that then I came back to America um, and I worked for someone who was a liberator someone who was high support and high challenged. They were so for me but they pushed me and then I went to work for a private equity.
39:36.60
Ben Owden
E.
39:54.52
Jeremie Kubicek
Group and this Chairman was a horrible person and he dominated and manipulated me in my role to try to force me to do things to pressure me to do things and it wasn't needed and he was so unintelligent.
39:57.50
Ben Owden
A.
40:14.65
Jeremie Kubicek
Relationally I'm like you didn't have to do that right? So I had experienced good and bad. So I got to the point where I'm like I want to explain things to better. You know there's terms like servant leadership and those kind of things and the problem with that word. Servant is it has an.
40:16.53
Ben Owden
E.
40:31.50
Jeremie Kubicek
Has a positive and negative connotation all at the same same time. So I was trying to figure out a better way to describe leadership and so then when when I got into ah owning John Maxwell's world and all of the content I started to listen to all of the jargon from Harvard. And all the jargon from other people and it was too complicated still to explain leadership. So I just explained it through the analogy of the sherpa on Mount Everest and that ah a leader has to perform while helping people perform a sherpa has to climb.
40:56.30
Ben Owden
A.
41:07.98
Jeremie Kubicek
Helping people climb. That's what a leader does. It's about responsibility you're responsible to lead yourself while you're leading other people and what I found was that most people aren't thinking like a sherpa that a sherpa they have to be the healthiest person on the mountain.
41:24.67
Ben Owden
Are.
41:27.77
Jeremie Kubicek
No one wants to follow a sherpa that has asthma or is smoking 3 packs of cigarettes on the mountain like no, no, no give me the healthy sherpa because we're climbing hired levels. So I started to interview the sherpa.
41:32.15
Ben Owden
Are.
41:44.39
Jeremie Kubicek
And I found that they're the best examples of leaders on the planet. They they get to know their people. They understand what motivates them and they they calibrate support with challenge and they know that certain people need a strong word and certain certain people need a look.
41:45.70
Ben Owden
He.
41:53.22
Ben Owden
He.
42:01.76
Ben Owden
Are.
42:02.54
Jeremie Kubicek
Well other people need a kick in the rear but they're providing support while they're doing that and so that that the idea of 100 x is that a sure but 100 stands for health x stands for multiplication. So you're healthy.
42:19.69
Ben Owden
A.
42:21.20
Jeremie Kubicek
And you're multiplying So as we're going up the mountain I talked to all the climbers I'd interview them and they said they were getting better as they were going up because the sherpa were constantly teaching them little tricks on the mountain and climbing and they were healthy enough that they trusted the sherpa.
42:31.50
Ben Owden
E.
42:38.10
Ben Owden
And.
42:40.92
Jeremie Kubicek
Entire way. So that's the idea of of 100 x and being someone people want to follow, not have to follow.
42:47.12
Ben Owden
Yeah, um I like I think particularly this idea of um, knowing when to push and when to to to challenge because I think um, funny thing is one of my favorite um basketball players is Michael Jordan and he.
43:04.67
Ben Owden
He is a dominator for that's just who he is his high on challenge. Very low support and I think that's why even after he left the culture he was in in Chicago bulls to go to another team. It didn't work because it was a different generation of people who required more support and just challenging and so when he took the same approach. It didn't necessarily work very well. Um, so this ability to get to a point where you have the discernment to know when to challenge and when to support how do we develop this ability so you know because I think every single one of us is a natural in one of these you know you're either. And natural supporter or natural challenger and if we rely simply on ah natural gifting. You might find yourself leading more on one than the other one. So how do we develop this ability to know when to support and when to challenge.
43:53.88
Jeremie Kubicek
If you know you're a feeler so back into the the 5 voices as a personality you can do Myers-briggs but the idea of if you know you're a feeler you have a tendency tendency to bring more support than challenge if you're a thinker you'll have a tendency.
43:57.49
Ben Owden
A.
44:11.77
Jeremie Kubicek
Bring more challenge than support so you need to know what your tendencies are from the very beginning if then you learn what am I on the other side of I always say that people are like plants like they'll say this water can here. Let's say this is a plant.
44:24.94
Ben Owden
E.
44:28.12
Jeremie Kubicek
A plant needs sunshine they need water they need soil food all that. So a lot of people will take a new plant and they'll put them underneath the desk and then they'll pull them out six months later and like you can't find good plants these days and you're like well who wants to grow the plant.
44:42.12
Ben Owden
Ah.
44:44.33
Ben Owden
Yeah.
44:47.20
Jeremie Kubicek
Or you well both of you The plant wants to grow and you want it to grow. Well it needs support and challenge. So how do you calibrate. So if I know I'm really I over support an under challenge and I have to work on my challenge or vice versa I'm really good at challenge. But I don't know what support looks like.
44:57.56
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
45:05.95
Jeremie Kubicek
Ask them? What would it look like for me to support you well and so then you learn how to calibrate both of them and that's the beauty of leadership. The best leaders in the world do both and the both they they truly empower people. They truly liberate people and it's not kumbaya.
45:14.20
Ben Owden
E.
45:24.69
Jeremie Kubicek
It's support and challenge I mean like the best leaders in the world. Do those things. So um, that's where that's that's really a mission that I have is trying to raise up more of those types of leaders those people that really like you Ben who really want to be both.
45:26.26
Ben Owden
Um, and.
45:35.53
Ben Owden
A.
45:42.66
Jeremie Kubicek
And and so by doing that you're inspiring that in people and you're showing them all. We're trying to do is give them the leadership language the toolkit we have about 70 of these tools and we put a lot of them in these books but they're really meant for leaders to use the tools visually to help people get.
45:50.36
Ben Owden
He.
46:02.12
Jeremie Kubicek
Up the mountain to the next level.
46:03.45
Ben Owden
Now there's there's a corporate philosophy you know and I'm it's prevalent everywhere in the world right? hit the ground running and when you think about transitional moments you know, incoming Ceo. Um, usually that there are people who. Thrive with this idea, right? hit the ground running which is funny because I think in sports. Um, if you go hard without the warm-up, you're probably risking getting injured um, but you know we've we've accepted it. Um as dogma so to speak hit the ground running now when it comes to this support challenge aspect. What makes starting with support a more vital approach so to speak.
46:39.83
Jeremie Kubicek
Well so you have to start with support because if I start with challenge then the other person's wall of self-prevation will go up because I go I don't know if you're for me or against me or if you're just for yourself. So if I'm judging your motive and intent I'm not Goingnna give you.
46:53.70
Ben Owden
Um, yeah, a.
46:57.53
Ben Owden
And.
46:58.55
Jeremie Kubicek
All um I'm not gonna be empowered I'm gonna do justs enough to be compliant to keep my job so I need to know that you're for me so support. You're showing me I'm for you, You're showing me, you want me on your team now I'll be more willing to receive your challenge if I know that you're for me, it makes.
47:06.72
Ben Owden
You.
47:12.57
Ben Owden
E.
47:18.13
Jeremie Kubicek
It's just philosophic. It's like strategic I actually tell people what happens to a lot of leaders and is that they will go so fast then they'll it be like a train. They're like the engine and the engine disconnects from the rest of the train. Well the engine goes one hundred miles an hour the train eventually stops.
47:30.30
Ben Owden
E.
47:37.69
Jeremie Kubicek
The train has to slow down back up rehook up to the team. Um, you know and then they have to keep going so the idea is slow down to speed up slow down to make sure that we are communicating effectively that there's relational trust that there's Egypt alignment.
47:40.10
Ben Owden
A.
47:54.19
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
47:57.17
Jeremie Kubicek
Then we can execute. But if you're forcing me to to go hey can we just get on the same page come on Bend Let's go get on the same page make it happen. Let's go and then people are like yeah yeah, but here's the deal I don't like you none of us like you.
47:59.50
Ben Owden
Um.
48:02.97
Ben Owden
Are yeah.
48:16.63
Jeremie Kubicek
So if I'm honest, um, we're going to do just enough to keep our jobs because we need these jobs sure we'll go with you but we're going to go at thirty miles an hour not at seventy miles an hour so wouldn't it make sense for the leader to slow down and go okay, that's not working.
48:21.91
Ben Owden
Um, yeah, bill.
48:35.55
Jeremie Kubicek
That's a definition of insanity. What if I came back and I'm like okay hey Ben let's talk 2 hours what do you need to do your job really well and um, how can I support you and be more effective as a leader.
48:53.69
Jeremie Kubicek
And you're like man you're really listening okay, all of a sudden you might go forty miles an hour instead of thirty miles an hour wouldn't that be more prudent I just don't understand the jargon of leaders and what it is is ah these are the leaders who they really don't know what to do.
49:00.76
Ben Owden
Yeah, yeah.
49:12.98
Jeremie Kubicek
They've never had it mimicked for them before so they've never experienced it. They think that just making the donuts. Ah, just we got to make the Donutts We got to make the Donutts We got to make the know that that's going to produce and so they're overproductive and under present. It will show up.
49:26.11
Ben Owden
A.
49:30.52
Jeremie Kubicek
In negative team rankings. So know yourself to lead yourself know your people to lead your people find out what kind of plants you have give them enough water position them correctly and they will bloom slow down to speed up.
49:41.15
Ben Owden
Yeah, and slow down to speed up right? Yeah, so that there's a question that we ask all of our guests who come on the podcast I'm just gonna throw it out there and then you know in a couple of minutes as we you know wind down I will I will I will bring it back up again. It's. Called the 1 one 1 right? What's the one ah book that you know you've read at some point in your life that you wish you had read that book earlier. Um, so the assumption here is that the book was published. It could be a book that was published this year but you say.
50:01.85
Jeremie Kubicek
Okay.
50:20.14
Ben Owden
I wish this book was available. You know twenty years ago um what's the 1 habit that you've again developed you know later in your life that you wish should develop that habit earlier as well and what's the 1 personal value that you will not compromise no matter the cost. So the 1 one one 1 book one habit.
50:36.16
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, yeah.
50:37.11
Ben Owden
1 personal value. So I'll ask that question in a few minutes I'll just let you think through that um, something else that you say that was very powerful for me because it's something that I quote very often in my own life. The unexamined life is not worth living and you say the unexamined leader. Is not worth following and and I love this statement. Um, and then you say we never graduate from the school of self-awareness now for leaders who are struggling to slow down. Um, what is a good place to start to create these spaces for reflection and examination. Um, you know, just. Stuck in business crazy demands targets have to be met. We have to do all of these different things. Um yet, you know you say the unexamined leader is not worth following. So what are the steps we can take to begin to slow down to create these spaces for reflection and examination.
51:29.11
Jeremie Kubicek
Well I actually do it while my day is going. It's at every day at five thirty I do the examine and I do I created my own version of it and it's basically this I go what? what was I grateful for. So if I'm driving or was I grateful for today.
51:41.57
Ben Owden
A.
51:48.22
Jeremie Kubicek
Was a highlight something good that happened second where was I not at peace today where was I off today. That's where I examine. So if I'm on an airplane or driving home or what have you at five thirty every day my watch goes off. That's what I think on and I examine was it me or was it them and I just start with me I'm like.
51:53.92
Ben Owden
Um, her and yeah.
52:07.96
Jeremie Kubicek
Ah, it was me why was I mad at soand-s so so because I didn't receive the honor that I well why do I need to honor and I examined it and I figure out oh it's a tendency of yours. Yeah, Jeremy that's a tendency. Do you have a tendency to want honor why and when does that happen.
52:10.54
Ben Owden
Um.
52:19.97
Ben Owden
Um, yeah.
52:22.81
Ben Owden
A.
52:27.16
Jeremie Kubicek
And what does it show up as and what's the consequence and I literally examined every day. Um, and maybe in a given seven days a week maybe 4 times a week is there some big epiphany the others they're like yeah no pretty good day and then.
52:36.87
Ben Owden
Are a.
52:44.47
Jeremie Kubicek
Then I look at my day the next day and I get ready for it and prepared for it and that's what I do every day at five thirty now by doing that. That's actually I gave away my habit. You give me my 3 that's a habit that I do so I'm I'm doing both at once here that that habit is um.
52:53.20
Ben Owden
A.
53:04.34
Jeremie Kubicek
Has been a game changer for me because my wife sees that I'm continuing to grow my kids see that I'm growing my employees see that I'm examining myself and I'm realizing it's me Ah, it's It's not them so therefore my influence goes up.
53:07.62
Ben Owden
And.
53:19.94
Ben Owden
Um, a and.
53:24.10
Jeremie Kubicek
Because they're seeing that I'm willing to change or I'm willing to look in a mirror and see broccoli in my teeth and do something about it.
53:30.50
Ben Owden
Um, now as we're winding down you know, talked about a lot of things but you know there's that Peter Drucker right strategy it's I mean culture. It's strategy for breakfast. Um, if a lot of these ideas don't become. Part of our culture. It could be a personal culture or a community or a group that we're a part of the sustainability aspect of it will probably suffer and in the book you talk about this idea of culture as a greenhouse. So if we're to use this again. Framework of culture as a greenhouse where can we begin to sort of translate a lot of a lot of these ideas from you know, just personal habits or personal choices to more of a cultural aspect.
54:13.00
Jeremie Kubicek
And yeah, so here's the big idea a culture is greenhouse leaders define culture. So think about the cultures that you have how many greenhouses do you have.
54:24.21
Ben Owden
A.
54:31.50
Jeremie Kubicek
You You could say you have your own self self as a greenhouse. How are you a gardener are there. Weeds are there things that and how's the atmosphere inside you and your mind stuck. It would be your family family is a greenhouse.
54:35.14
Ben Owden
Um.
54:43.47
Ben Owden
On ah.
54:49.60
Jeremie Kubicek
What's it like in your how toxic is the air in your family in your home or is there empowerment happening is there a clean air are you are you do you know your personality of your kids um or in your spouse then you go to the ah team circle.
54:53.66
Ben Owden
Um, and. Down.
55:07.91
Jeremie Kubicek
How's your team if you lead a team or how are you inside of a team or an organization and then you have your community circle. So it's your church or your neighborhood or what have you leaders define culture If you don't like something and you're the leader well look in the mirror you define the culture.
55:14.21
Ben Owden
Um, me.
55:23.35
Ben Owden
Yeah.
55:27.40
Jeremie Kubicek
So what needs to change if you want to experience change Then what do you need to do to influence that so that's how I view it.
55:36.95
Ben Owden
Um, thank you so much Jeremy for you know for the conversation now this is where now I bring back the question right? The 1 one one. What is the one book that you know you've read that you wish to read earlier. 1 habit which you've just shed and the one personal value that you will not compromise no matter the cost.
55:54.42
Jeremie Kubicek
Yeah, so the the book I would say it was its humility by Andrew Murray and it was a book that really impacts me I I read it on a regular basis. It's short and it's an older book so you kind of have to older language and such but the idea of humility versus pride. And think pride was is the original sin um, humility is power and most people don't aren't aware of it and I went through a journey of humility for decades I'm still in that journey and so that that's something I think is is really powerful.
56:13.47
Ben Owden
Are a.
56:30.55
Jeremie Kubicek
Ah, the one is the examine at five thirty that's the tip that I would give you what are you grateful for. Where were you not at peace and are you prepared and ready for the next day if you do that really? well your evenings are better because you're dealing with things on a daily basis. You're not letting things build up.
56:35.14
Ben Owden
Um, he.
56:42.16
Ben Owden
E.
56:50.20
Ben Owden
And.
56:50.52
Jeremie Kubicek
Over weeks and months and so that's something that I've really really tried to work on and then the last one. Um, which is um ah help me with oh that value the personal value um is actually wisdom and um.
56:58.70
Ben Owden
The personal value. Yeah yeah. A.
57:09.13
Jeremie Kubicek
Wisdom is a value of mine and it's it's allowing wisdom to thrive in your life and um so what does wisdom look like ah it sounds kind of vague. Um, but it's something that I just so value that I want to live a wise life I Want to be a wise Person. So How do I deal with the things in my life that aren't wise and um so to me wisdom is such a value that I know that's kind of ambiguous as I say that but I know what I'm trying to say in my head.
57:30.85
Ben Owden
And.
57:42.90
Ben Owden
Yeah, thank you? Well we've come to the end of our conversation. Ah, once again, thank you so much Jeremy for for making the time and I'm sure by the time this comes out your book will be out. We'll put all the links in the description. So that people can access all the resources and.
57:55.10
Jeremie Kubicek
Um, yeah I think it's great.
57:59.91
Ben Owden
Ah, to our dear listeners. This has been the wire lead podcast and I'm your host Ben odin.